Re: Combat Talents

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:45 pm

Yep, we know it's a joke. I just think it might still be a cool idea. =)

Zarhon Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:48 pm

Thought of another talent. Not sure if it counts as a berzerker talent, though.

[-8] Hammer throw
You grab your target by a limb and start spinning at incredible speeds, before throwing them onto another enemy (or the ground, if none are available), dealing 1d12+2 damage to both. If the target is bloodied, flip a coin. If it's heads, you instead throw them 200 yards away into the distance, causing them take 2d8+6 damage when they land, as well as being absent from the fight for two rounds, if they survive the damage. The player is weakened for their next turn in both cases. If all other opponents are defeated before a thrown target returns to the battle, or the target is the only enemy, the target is automatically KO'd and the fight is won. The targets that were KO'd outside of the battle can be located 200 yards away in the direction of the throw, half-buried in the ground.

Examples:
(two enemies)
- Player grabs a non-bloodied enemy A. He throws him into enemy B, they both take 1d12+2 damage. Player is weakened for next turn.
- Player grabs bloodied enemy A, coin shows tails. He throws him into enemy B, they both take 1d12+2 damage. Player is weakened for next turn.
- Player grabs bloodied enemy A, coin shows heads. Enemy A takes 2d8+6 damage and is absent for two rounds. Player is weakened for next turn. If enemy B is defeated within those two rounds, enemy A is auto-knocked out, battle is won.

(One enemy)
- Player grabs bloodied enemy A, gets heads. Enemy A is auto-knocked out, battle is won. Players find Enemy A 200 yards away, half-buried and unconscious.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:16 pm

Check it out folks, the first Official Expansion - and it's for combat talents. Check it out and tell me if you think there should be any last-minute changes.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k1FJBDGgxV3xbLuFyaiTWDAuIfBQOmF7gvIlupuW-q4/edit

**Karilyn** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:30 pm

[0] Adrenaline Rush - Immediate Reaction
Trigger - An enemy deals more than 1/5th of your maximum health in damage.
Flip a coin. If heads, you gain a PiP.

How's that for fixing chunky wording? Technically the wording is a slight nerf, on the order of 1HP more than before for Adrenaline Rush to trigger, but it's still very simple wording.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:35 pm

Karilyn wrote:[0] Adrenaline Rush - Immediate Reaction
Trigger - An enemy deals more than 1/5th of your maximum health in damage.
Flip a coin. If heads, you gain a PiP.

How's that for fixing chunky wording?

Nice, we'd need to polish it to make it more accurate of course. Like...

Trigger - An enemy's attack deals more than 1/5th of your maximum health in damage.

However, while shorter it's also less clear. As much as I don't like the clunky trigger in the doc - it gets the concept across easily at first blush. "Deals more than 1/5th of your maximum health in damage" is an oddball sentence. Perhaps...

Trigger - An enemy's attack deals damage to you greater than 1/6th of your maximum health.

But again, while shorter... It seems fuzzier.

Meh, I think we can keep it for now.

Demonu Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:52 pm

Did this get playtested at all?

Because they may look balanced if you pick all the combat options from 1 build but you know people are going to cross them and I foresee a lot of combo potential/abuse within it.

Implementing a class system would prevent that but that brings a whole new set of problems and doesn't really fit the Pony Tales mentality.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:53 pm

Demonu wrote:Did this get playtested at all?

Because they may look balanced if you pick all the combat options from 1 build but you know people are going to cross them and I foresee a lot of combo potential/abuse within it.

Implementing a class system would prevent that but that brings a whole new set of problems and doesn't really fit the Pony Tales mentality.

Not playtested at all. And they're designed to combo with one another, and with all the original talents too. Can you point out any combos you spot that you think are too powerful? I really want people to find sweet combinations across 'classes' - but obviously things still need to be balanced.

**Philadelphus** Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:51 pm

Checking out the Equine Power expansion now...

Hooves of Fury – I'm slightly confused on the wording. "Deal 1d10 damage to up to two target creatures. Those creatures suffer -2 damage on their next turn." Does that mean that they lose 2 HP at the start of their next turn? Or that they have Vulnerability 2 for their next turn? (Now that I write it out it seems clear it's the former, but I'm not 100% sure.)

Form of the Courageous Turtle – Ha ha! Love the name!

I Meant to Do That – That one looks pretty neat.

Quick Tempo – Is that just a one-off for the current turn, or does it change the permanent order of combat? If permanent, could you keep using it to work your way to the top of the initiative stack?

Song of Shielding – That one looks good. I like the two options. It'd be cool to see more talents like that (paying extra PiPs to get additional effects). Though it might unbalance the system a bit, I don't know.

Alluring Alto – Does that mean you can direct enemy attacks to one of your allies if you win the flip? Is the idea that you can buff an ally with Resist and temporary HP, then force enemies to attack them? (Or just get those enemies off your back, or deal with that one annoying party member...I can see some possibilities.)

IT IS NOT THIS DAY! – Love the rousing speech in the notes! Hmm, wonder if you could make a Lord of the Rings campaign setting with the Pony Tales system? That could be an interesting module...

Savage Dreadnought – The wording here seem a bit awkward. Perhaps something like "Lose 3 HP, and make a saving throw against one of your (save ends) conditions."?

Adrenaline Rush – Possible alternate wording: "Trigger: An enemy deals you 1/5th or more of your maximum health in damage in one attack."

It looks like Blind Rage and Into the Fray are in each other's positions, given their PiP costs.

Other than those minor points, it looks good!

Demonu Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:06 pm

I'll let you know when some insane combo comes up when people use them.
Consider it playtesting Smile

Ramsus Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:06 pm

Gah, Hooves of Fury changed on me eh? Well, I liked the original version so....

[-3] Airburst - Do 1d12 damage to every enemy.

Random explody sounding name I figured wasn't likely taken and could easily sound like a magical, weather control, or item based effect. (Not that the names even have to be like that but...eh, why not?)

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:16 pm

Philadelphus wrote:Hooves of Fury – I'm slightly confused on the wording. "Deal 1d10 damage to up to two target creatures. Those creatures suffer -2 damage on their next turn." Does that mean that they lose 2 HP at the start of their next turn? Or that they have Vulnerability 2 for their next turn? (Now that I write it out it seems clear it's the former, but I'm not 100% sure.)

Neither, it means they deal 2 less damage on attacks. I've now changed the wording to make it clearer.

Philadelphus wrote:Form of the Courageous Turtle – Ha ha! Love the name!

Me too. =)

Philadelphus wrote:I Meant to Do That – That one looks pretty neat.

Glad to hear it. I'm not sure if combat talents like these might be co-opted into Traits later. If so, consider this the Traits playtest. Wink

Philadelphus wrote:Quick Tempo – Is that just a one-off for the current turn, or does it change the permanent order of combat? If permanent, could you keep using it to work your way to the top of the initiative stack?

It changes the permanent order of combat. If you got the highest initiative starting out, you can easily bring all your allies up to the top of the initiative stack with you. Heck, even if you roll low you could still let allies take turns more frequently. Let's say your friend comes directly before you in the initiative order. You could use this power to then let them go immediately after you, so it'll be their turn again once you're finished. Of course, they'll have to wait until after you to go again, but the quick burst of tempo offers a lot of strategic options.

Philadelphus wrote:Song of Shielding – That one looks good. I like the two options. It'd be cool to see more talents like that (paying extra PiPs to get additional effects). Though it might unbalance the system a bit, I don't know.

I like it too. I think more multi-option talents could work fine with the system balance, it's easier to control than X powers. =)

Philadelphus wrote:Alluring Alto – Does that mean you can direct enemy attacks to one of your allies if you win the flip? Is the idea that you can buff an ally with Resist and temporary HP, then force enemies to attack them? (Or just get those enemies off your back, or deal with that one annoying party member...I can see some possibilities.)

You've got the exact idea. This way they don't need to spend as many PiPs on Defender.

Philadelphus wrote:IT IS NOT THIS DAY! – Love the rousing speech in the notes! Hmm, wonder if you could make a Lord of the Rings campaign setting with the Pony Tales system? That could be an interesting module...

I'd love if someone did that. Unicorns are easily the high elves while pegasai could be the wood elves and earth ponies could be the men. Hobbits? blank-flanks or, heck, maybe young dragons. Dwarves could be diamond dogs.

Philadelphus wrote:Savage Dreadnought – The wording here seem a bit awkward. Perhaps something like "Lose 3 HP, and make a saving throw against one of your (save ends) conditions."?

"Make a saving throw" is a gameplay term, not just weird phrasing. I've changed the comment to help illuminate this.

Philadelphus wrote:Adrenaline Rush – Possible alternate wording: "Trigger: An enemy deals you 1/5th or more of your maximum health in damage in one attack."

Still a bit wonky... I still like the clarity of the current trigger, even if it is really long.

Philadelphus wrote:It looks like Blind Rage and Into the Fray are in each other's positions, given their PiP costs.

Thanks! Fixed.

Philadelphus wrote:Other than those minor points, it looks good!

[/quote]

Awesome. Cool

Ramsus wrote:Gah, Hooves of Fury changed on me eh? Well, I liked the original version so....

[-3] Airburst - Do 1d12 damage to every enemy.

Random explody sounding name I figured wasn't likely taken and could easily sound like a magical, weather control, or item based effect. (Not that the names even have to be like that but...eh, why not?)

Sweet. We can easily run a power like that.

Zarhon Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:51 pm

Only thing I regret is the bard ultimate doesn't let me threaten my allies with even worse beatings, Iron Will style.

"Ugh! Sorry... Sir..."
"I NEVER SAID YOU COULD LOSE CONSCIOUSNESS! GET UP AND FIGHT BACK, OR YOU'LL WISH THAT HIT KILLED YOU INSTEAD!"
"AAH YES SIR RIGHT AWAY SIR!"
"AND PUT SOME MUSCLE INTO IT!"

Question about Judo throw, btw...

1 - We get to choose if the thrown creature takes damage? Does that mean one can fling allies out of the battle, or that we have to choose between flinging enemies out of combat for no damage, or just directly damaging them?
2 - Does the creature take damage once the ability affects them, or after it lands one round later?
3 - Can friendly / non-damage effects be used on them whilst creatures are flung (like giving them +5 resistance)?
4 - How exactly can the [+pip] talents be used whilst flung? Can the flung creature cast something like Kindle Pain, or Psychic anomaly, or Energize, or can it only use the talent to gain its pip value, without actually doing anything?

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:29 pm

Zarhon wrote:Only thing I regret is the bard ultimate doesn't let me threaten my allies with even worse beatings, Iron Will style.

"Ugh! Sorry... Sir..."
"I NEVER SAID YOU COULD LOSE CONSCIOUSNESS! GET UP AND FIGHT BACK, OR YOU'LL WISH THAT HIT KILLED YOU INSTEAD!"
"AAH YES SIR RIGHT AWAY SIR!"
"AND PUT SOME MUSCLE INTO IT!"

That's what the reflavoring system is for. Precisely for that. So you still can threaten them. =)

Zarhon wrote:Question about Judo throw, btw...

1 - We get to choose if the thrown creature takes damage? Does that mean one can fling allies out of the battle, or that we have to choose between flinging enemies out of combat for no damage, or just directly damaging them?

It means you can choose between flinging an ally out of the battle to protect them and flinging an enemy out for significant damage.

Zarhon wrote:2 - Does the creature take damage once the ability affects them, or after it lands one round later?

It's always immediately unless otherwise stated.

Zarhon wrote:3 - Can friendly / non-damage effects be used on them whilst creatures are flung (like giving them +5 resistance)?

Nope. They're effectively removed from the combat.

Zarhon wrote:4 - How exactly can the [+pip] talents be used whilst flung? Can the flung creature cast something like Kindle Pain, or Psychic anomaly, or Energize, or can it only use the talent to gain its pip value, without actually doing anything?

You can burn them for their PiP cost without a legal target, you just get the PiPs and no effect.

Ramsus Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:50 pm

Well, since you nerfed Fireswath does that change Airburst to -4 PiPs?

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:53 pm

Ramsus wrote:Well, since you nerfed Fireswath does that change Airburst to -4 PiPs?

Yep, going to have to do that. All AOE was based on Fireswath before. The combat system is just going to work better though if "kill everything" spells are over-costed so that they can only be used in situations where you really need them.

Snagging Roots Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:10 pm

This expansion's google doc is hard to find... Somepony in the party with me started using talents from it, and I was greatly confused.

It took me an hour to find my way to this link; I think it should be mentioned in the Player's Handbook...

Also, I love this; It's great!

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:20 pm

Many Manes wrote:This expansion's google doc is hard to find... Somepony in the party with me started using talents from it, and I was greatly confused.

It took me an hour to find my way to this link; I think it should be mentioned in the Player's Handbook...

It's in the player's handbook title page now. I'll put a link in the Combat Talent page as well. =)

Many Manes wrote:Also, I love this; It's great!

Awesome! Though to be clear, what are you referring to? The system, the expansion, the joy of posting on a forum? Smile

Snagging Roots Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:14 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Many Manes wrote:This expansion's google doc is hard to find... Somepony in the party with me started using talents from it, and I was greatly confused.

It took me an hour to find my way to this link; I think it should be mentioned in the Player's Handbook...

It's in the player's handbook title page now. I'll put a link in the Combat Talent page as well. =)

Cool, thanks!

Zarhon Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:44 pm

Here's a few more combat abilities.

[-6] Phoenixes Salvation - Free action / Trigger
This ability can only be used as a free action whilst unconscious, or it will automatically activate if you are the last pony remaining and take enough damage to get knocked out. You must have the required amount of PiPs in both cases. You are brought back to half your maximum hitpoints, while every unconscious ally flips a coin for themselves. If it's heads, they are restored to 1d10 hitpoints. If it's tails, they remain unconscious and perform any one of their three special abilities, regardless of being unconscious. This ability can only be used once per battle.

[-4] Zebra curse / Bad Breath
Choose a target, and roll a d8. The effects are as follows:
1 = Nothing happens
2-3 = Enemy gains Vulnerability 3 (Save ends)
4-5 = Enemy is blinded (Save ends)
6-7 = Enemy is weakened (Save ends)
8-9 = Enemy is stunned (Save ends)
10 = Enemy is weakened, blinded, stunned, and gains Vulnerability 3 (save ends, separate roll for each)

[-6] Impending doom / Tonberry Trot
Choose an enemy target. For the next two rounds, you cannot take any actions, including free actions, unless they are granted from an ally. During those two rounds, your target gains Vulnerability 3 on the first and Vulnerability 6 on the second round, while you cannot be damaged by any source of damage other than those from your current target, or area-of-effect abilities that don't target you directly. On the start of your third round, the enemy takes 4d10 damage and its Vulnerability is removed. If the target is knocked unconscious before the ability finishes it re-targets to the next adjacent enemy and continues as it is.

Examples:

1) Cast on enemy A. Next round, enemy A gets Vulnerability 3, while you do nothing. Round after that, they get Vulnerability 6, while you do nothing. Round after that, they get 4d10 damage and Vulnerability 6 is removed.

2) Cast on enemy A. Next round, enemy A gets Vulnerability 3, you do nothing. Round after, enemy A is knocked out, so enemy B (which is next in line) gets targeted by the ability and gets Vulnerability 6, while you do nothing. Round after that, enemy B gets 4d10 damage.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:54 pm

I definitely like the idea of Zebra Curse and similar powers. I like the Phoenix concept a lot too, I think I'll use that for a Trait in the upcoming level-up system. Cool

Zarhon Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:42 pm

Copy-pasted from the "crazy ideas" thread.

[-3] Share the pain
Choose two enemy targets. Whenever one of the two is damaged, the other target rolls the same dice amount as damage for itself. Area attacks that hit both of them at once do not affect this.

(e.g. target enemy A & B. Attack hits enemy A for 1d8 damage. Enemy A rolls 4 damage. Then, enemy B has to roll 1d8 damage for itself as well. Enemy B rolls 6. Same effect works in reverse. )

[-X] Ultimate Sacrifice
You lose all your hit points, reducing yourself to 0 hp. You cannot be revived or healed, or otherwise act for the next two rounds. You are also Weakened for the rest of the fight (Removable only with special abilities). In exchange, all your allies are revived, restored to full health, and gain the amount of PiPs you paid when you used the ability. This ability can only be used once, by only one player, per encounter.

[-8] Light of Hope
You suffer from 1 Ongoing Damage, Vulnerability 5 and Stunned, which cannot be removed by any means, until the start of your second turn. At the start of your second turn, you perform two special moves in row, instead of a standard action. You can use any combination of your chosen special moves.

[-5] Reach out and hug somepony

You deal 1d12 to a single target for this round and the following two rounds and apply a stacking 2 Ongoing Damage for each round (up to 6 Ongoing damage, save ends). You are considered stunned whilst doing this.

Example of use:
A) Round 1: 1d12 + 2 ongoing damage. Round 2: 1d12 + 4 ongoing damage. Round 3: 1d12 + 6 ongoing damage.
B) Round 1: 1d12 + 2 ongoing. Round 2: 1d12 +4 ongoing. Enemy saves against ongoing, resetting it. Round 3: 1d12 + 2 ongoing damage.

[-4] Pony Pokey
Deal 1d4 damage to one enemy. If this ability kills or knocks the enemy unconscious, you gain 8 PiPs.

[-1] Poke of Death - At will
Deal 1 damage to an enemy. If the enemy is knocked unconscious, they cannot be revived or healed in any way, unless the player allows it. This effect transfers to other encounters and outside of combat, lasting for 24 hours. Using this ability only allows a maximum of 3 damage to be inflected, regardless of Vulnerability or any other effects that increase damage.

(e.g. if you have +1d12 damage to your next attack, from meditate, and the enemy has Vulnerability 6, you still only deal 3 damage with Poke of Death.)

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:43 pm

I'm surprised we haven't done something like this already.

[+3] Bind Wound
Target ally gains Regeneration 2 until the end of your next turn.

Not perfect design yet of course, but some counterpart to Draw Blood would be cool.

Also, another design option.

[-1] Shield
You or target ally gains resist 2 until the end of your next turn.
Sustain Cost: 1 Pip (during each of your turns, you may pay 1 pip to extend the duration of this effect until the end of your next turn)

The Warrior of Many Faces Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:00 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:I'm surprised we haven't done something like this already.

[+3] Bind Wound
Target ally gains Regeneration 2 until the end of your next turn.

Not perfect design yet of course, but some counterpart to Draw Blood would be cool.

Also, another design option.

[-1] Shield
You or target ally gains resist 2 until the end of your next turn.
Sustain Cost: 1 Pip (during each of your turns, you may pay 1 pip to extend the duration of this effect until the end of your next turn)

Bind Wound looks pretty good to me, actually, as does Shield. Shield especially looks cool due to the possibility of keeping the shield going for a long time. If you just keep using [+] abilities, you could keep that going indefinitely! Very Happy

Zarhon Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:30 pm

[-2] Budding seed
You bind a budding seed onto yourself or an ally, which provides Regeneration 3. The effect is removed when its target receives damage, or at will by the caster. Depending on how long the effect persists on the target, it does the following:
- 1 full turn: Heals affected target for 1d8 hit points when removed
- 2 full turns: Provides Regeneration 5 to affected target, heals all allies for 1d10 hitpoints when removed
You can only have two seeds active at once.

You can only have two seeds active at any given time.

[-4] Conjure plantling
You summon a plant-like creature, which acts as a conjuration you control.

Plantling - 5 hp

Grow - Trait
The conjuration skips its first turn of combat.

Barkskin - Trait
The conjuration has 5 Resistance, and cannot suffer from Vulnerability.

[+1] Protect
The guardian prepares to guard a chosen ally until its next turn. If the chosen ally would take damage from an attack that is directly targeting them, the plantling takes damage instead, as much as its health allows it (If an attack would deal it 12 damage, it would takes 5 damage and die, followed by the ally taking 7 damage). If the target is hit by an area attack that didn't target them directly, the damage is reduced by half (e.g. a fireball hitting the plantling would hurt the plantling and the resultant area damage would only deal half damage to the ally).

[0] Strike
The plantling deals 1d6 damage to a random enemy.

[-2] Blossom
The plantling regains 5 hitpoints, permanently increases its maximum hitpoints by 10 and permanently increases the damage it does with Strike by 6.

The Warrior of Many Faces Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:35 pm

Zarhon wrote:[-2] Budding seed
You bind a budding seed onto yourself or an ally, which provides Regeneration 3. The effect is removed upon receiving damage. If the effect was not removed by the start of the casters next turn, removing the effect automatically heals the target for 1d8 hit points and can be removed at will by the caster. If the effect persist for an additional round, the seeds provides Regeneration 5 to its target, and heals all allies for 1d10 hit points when removed. You can only have two seeds active at any given time.

[-4] Conjure plantling
You summon a plant-like creature. It skips its first turn to fully grow, but otherwise acts like any other conjured creature.

Plantling - 5 hp

Barkskin - Trait
The conjuration has 5 Resistance, and cannot suffer from Vulnerability.

[+1] Protect
The guardian prepares to guard a chosen ally. If the chosen ally would take damage from an attack that is directly targeting them, the plantling takes damage instead, as much as its health allows it (If an attack would deal it 12 damage, it would takes 5 damage and die, followed by the ally taking 7 damage). If the target is hit by an area attack that didn't target them directly, the damage is reduced by half (e.g. a fireball hitting the plantling would hurt the plantling and the resultant area damage would only deal half damage to the ally).
[0] Strike
The plantling deals 1d6 damage to a random enemy.
[-2] Grow
The plantling regains 5 hitpoints, permanently increases its maximum hitpoints by 10 and permanently increases the damage it does with Strike by 6.

Sounds like somepony's thinking Druid. These look good conceptually; I especially like Budding Seed, it reminds me of Leech Seed from Pokemon. The main thing I think this needs is polishing to make it a little less wordy; unfortunately, I can't think of how to do it. I do recommend making the Plantling's "takes a turn to grow" thing a Trait rather than stating it in the attack description. Additionally, I think Grow either needs to have a higher PiP cost or it needs to not have all those benefits at once. Heck, just making the effects have 1d6 healed, 1d10 permanent HP, and 1d6 increase to Strike would help, since there's an element of chance in there.

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