Re: MLP:FiM Season Four: Discussion, Speculation, Interpretation, find it all here. [SPOILERS]

Dusk Raven Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:51 pm

My main problem was that it was too short, and something dealing with as influential a character as Discord should have been a two-parter. But as with many things, eventually things kind of made sense to me.

Mostly, what Lyntermas said. But also, I keep a couple of things in mind - Fluttershy was the only one of the Mane Six who really resisted Discord's corruption to the point where he lost his patience and had to mind-hack her (term I like and will look for future application of). Kind of ties into what Lyntermas said about him eventually realizing Fluttershy really is just that nice.

Also, I noticed Discord's antics were a lot more... low-key than in his previous appearance. Even when he does do something behind the Mane Six's back, it's to... command beavers to flood Sweet Apple Acres. I start to wonder if maybe he realized on some level that his "status quo" so to speak - pure, semi-random and semi-malicious chaos - wasn't getting him anywhere.

My other problem is that I find the "never had a real friend" trope kind of cliche. But it works. I suppose it's a case of evil not understanding good, as Lyntermas says, and him not really realizing it until it smacks him in the face when his only friend threatens to leave him.

If that makes sense.

SilentBelle Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:00 pm

Oh right, that reminds me that I got around to watching it again yesterday, and wow, I enjoyed it a lot more the second time. (Still trying to make rules in my mind about how his magic works though...)

RavenscroftRaven Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:37 pm

...Rules?

Does he want it to happen? Does he NOT want it to happen? Is he apathetic of it happening?

If "yes" to any of the above, it happens. But not always. Sometimes.

Alright, all fairness, he does have rules. For example, clearly, he needs to be able to move to do magic, else his stone form would shatter long ago. It appears to be keyed into his finger-snap, implying like unicorn horns, all his appendages (or at least hands and tail) are magic conduits.

...You know what I like the thought of, as a terribly dark person? Let us assume Discord becomes enamored with the concept of being Fluttershy's friend, and does (mostly) good things to keep that way. The fun bit?

...Fluttershy does not have an infinite lifespan. Discord likely does. Heartbreak sucks, probably even moreso when a being of chaos has heartbreak thrust upon him because living then dying is the natural Order of things. They turrned Discord from a once-a-millenia statue threat to a ticking time bomb, one that likely no one will do anything about, after all, is Fluttershy, on her deathbed, going to Element-Frag Discord when he spent a lifetime helping her?

SilentBelle Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:43 am

Well, my fanfic deals with chaos magic and I'm only going to be exploring it further in the sequel. I like to think that there are rules to Discord's magic. Celestia kind of hinted at that as well.

As for Fluttershy. I think she would be able to find the time to soften the harsh blow of death through her kindness. I figure by the end of her life, she'd have brought much more change to him, enough that he wouldn't revert to evil. It would definitely be a neat idea to explore though... maybe for one of my one-shots...

Cardbo Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:13 am

SilentBelle wrote:Well, my fanfic deals with chaos magic and I'm only going to be exploring it further in the sequel. I like to think that there are rules to Discord's magic. Celestia kind of hinted at that as well.

As for Fluttershy. I think she would be able to find the time to soften the harsh blow of death through her kindness. I figure by the end of her life, she'd have brought much more change to him, enough that he wouldn't revert to evil. It would definitely be a neat idea to explore though... maybe for one of my one-shots...

You know, if nothing else, there is, as Magic Duel clearly shows us, youth spells available. There's really no reason for Discord to allow her to die.

SilentBelle Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:17 am

Cardbo wrote:
SilentBelle wrote:Well, my fanfic deals with chaos magic and I'm only going to be exploring it further in the sequel. I like to think that there are rules to Discord's magic. Celestia kind of hinted at that as well.

As for Fluttershy. I think she would be able to find the time to soften the harsh blow of death through her kindness. I figure by the end of her life, she'd have brought much more change to him, enough that he wouldn't revert to evil. It would definitely be a neat idea to explore though... maybe for one of my one-shots...

You know, if nothing else, there is, as Magic Duel clearly shows us, youth spells available. There's really no reason for Discord to allow her to die.

Well, I suppose that's true. Though the actual parameters of that spell are debatable.

Dusk Raven Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:19 am

RavenscroftRaven wrote:...Fluttershy does not have an infinite lifespan. Discord likely does. Heartbreak sucks, probably even moreso when a being of chaos has heartbreak thrust upon him because living then dying is the natural Order of things. They turrned Discord from a once-a-millenia statue threat to a ticking time bomb, one that likely no one will do anything about, after all, is Fluttershy, on her deathbed, going to Element-Frag Discord when he spent a lifetime helping her?

Makes me wonder how badly Discord would screw up the natural order of things in an attempt to keep Fluttershy alive/bring her back...

Xel Unknown Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:23 am

There's also the factor that he might FULLY already be aware of this issue... And most likely will come to understand that Discord will NEED to figure a way to befriend other ponies out there. OR he might be alone for all of his endless days. I'm sure Luna would've been more willing to trust Discord. Don't recall seeing Luna at the end there...

A1C Bronymous Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:16 pm

Just for Sidekicks aka Spike is an Incompetent Moron part 2

So we start out by seeing that Pipsqueak (or PeeWee?) is not going to be in this one, because at some point he was returned to his parents. Weak. Spike tries to make a cake and only succeeds in being a base sex joke about either a gay vampire or a purple unicorn. Then we get to revisit the issue of Dragon's being greedy (and Spike being Stupid) as he tries to con everyone out of a single gem by pretending to babysit the pets. So this brings up a few things:

1. Gems apparently ARE worth money in Equestria. The CMC bought a high tech wind storm machine with one tiny ruby shard, and the entire episode shows us the finer points of extortion and bribery in Ponyville. Spike just wanted the gems to eat, but everyone else tries to get him to pay up everytime he goes near them, just because he's carrying them around.

2. Tank is alive, and supposedly not living in that tree commune thing, but instead is indeed staying with Rainbow Dash. He is also a pro helicopter pilot (says the fixed-wing pilot) and either cannot control his rotor, or is just hilariously bad at flight.

3. Angel is in fact a complete douchebag. Settled.

4. Rarity is Generosity. I think. I forgive her though. She hasn't had an episode yet, so she's on a tight budget.

Really wish they would have seen them on the train. Would have been better.

It's a background plot point, but the Equestrian Games is being held in the Crystal Empire, and I haven't checked the other episode synopses, but it looks like they intend to ramp up the hype again for the remaining two episodes.

And Sweetie Belle still holds the title for hnnnggnest pony.

Zarhon Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:19 pm

Spike didn't seem so idiotic/incompetent this episode. He did get a handle on most of the pets (excluding Angel, who is a douche) and was sneaky in general. The only real "idiocy" was his baking attempts, which can be simply attributed to him suffering from severe, crippling, subliminal gem addiction. He needs an intervention.

There's also short scene (along with a sighting of Screw Loose, who has a house apparently, and medical visits) that confirms that Cheerilee & Big Mac are still a thing, and are either:
1) Dating
2) Friends
3) The above, with benefits

RD wins adorable points this episode with how she treats Tank.

Opal is, surprisingly, not being a bitch for the majority of this episode..

Owlowlicious is amazingly snarky/serious for a pet. Favorite of the bunch.

Gummy is stoned out of his mind and/or Derpy's alternate animal form. It's not helping Pinkie Pie's apparent schizophrenia.

Charity fillyscout pony is adorable.

Spoiler:

AProcrastinatingWriter Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:25 pm

I have no strong feelings regarding this episode.

**Paper Shadow** Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:21 pm

PeeWee is removed from the show, Zecora spouts out more anti-dragon propaganda, and the economy of Equestria goes to hell with the introduction of gems which simultaneously have no worth and all the worth in the world...

Sounds like an average day in Ponyville to me...

Cardbo Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:05 am

Bronymous wrote:Just for Sidekicks aka Spike is an Incompetent Moron part 2

So we start out by seeing that Pipsqueak (or PeeWee?) is not going to be in this one, because at some point he was returned to his parents. Weak. Spike tries to make a cake and only succeeds in being a base sex joke about either a gay vampire or a purple unicorn. Then we get to revisit the issue of Dragon's being greedy (and Spike being Stupid) as he tries to con everyone out of a single gem by pretending to babysit the pets. So this brings up a few things:

My thoughts on PeeWee are summed up in this image.

Spoiler:

All things considered its probably best he went back to his family. It is nice that they acknowledged his existence, though.

As for the gems, that really didn't bother me that much. They probably have some value, just not as much as real world gems.

SilentBelle Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:23 am

I thought it was a pretty fun episode, though nothing astounding. It was nice to see the CMC involved too.

The Warrior of Many Faces Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:14 pm

I quite enjoyed it! At first it seemed like a Baby Cakes retread, but we actually got to see an entirely different problem. Pinkie wanted to be responsible but didn't have a grasp on how; Spike knew how, but didn't want to. It's not like he's BAD at pet-sitting, but he's in it for the money and doesn't care very much about his charges.

Nice compilation of the sidekicks here; the CMC doing an utterly horrible job of pet-sitting was spot on, although what the shopkeeper was thinking when he sold three little fillies an industrial-strength hair dryer is beyond me.

Nice to see Angel not being a COMPLETE jerk for once. He can at least have some compassion for Spike, given the gifting of the gem.

Tank's crashing into stuff was great in the first half, but I feel like they forgot about it after that in favor of the plot. Which begs the in-universe question "why is he suddenly less clumsy?"

Speaking of Tank, Opal apparently remembers Tank tipping her kitty carrier on top of her and bears a bit of a grudge.

Speaking of Opal, just when I think Rarity can't get more fussy about Opal, there she goes with 84.4 degrees or some such. *rolls eyes* Devotion to your pet is great, but don't take it too far, Rarity...

I think Zecora was on to something. Rid him of the gems and he no longer has the reason not to care for the pets instead of daydreaming about the cake. (Which is apparently a very cruel lie.)

Cardbo Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:57 am

You know, when Spike had all the pets rolled up into a ball, I was expecting a whole lot more 'Katamari' jokes to come out of that.

RavenscroftRaven Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:50 am

And the moral of the story is "You can't have your cake and eat it too"... In a bizarrely literal version.

I liked the episode. Better than some, worse than others. I always assumed Rarity was akin to an economic goddess, how else could she support her apparently unemployed parents and sister while running a shop that sells a dozen dresses, tops, per season? The only explanation is that gems are actually valuable and that she has a very rare and useful talent keeping her afloat. It also makes dragons that much more tyrannical.

As for the tiny gem buying so much... We've ascertained that certain gems are worth more than others in Secret of my Excess, so it could be that, indeed, Rarity is the Element of Generosity, and actually paid the most in bit-value for pet-sitting? The red gem was a centrepiece on her newest work, likely the most expensive gem to be so prominently displayed. Spike, of course, who views gems as food and not as scarce economic goods, sees it as the least valuable and gives it away first, allowing the industrial equipment purchase. To use a real-world example, I could offer you fifty karats of amethyst or five of diamond (keeping in mind, Canada, you can literally pick up amethyst off the ground here), and to a lithovore, the amethyst is more valuable. To a banker, however, they'd prefer the diamond. The appearance of generosity shifts. To an alien without concept of scarcity, the person giving the huge 5kt diamond is a cheapskate compared to the 50kt giver... But I must defend Best Mane Pony.

I liked having Screw Loose cameo. That was cute how the doc checks to ensure the barking wasn't her.

The pets got to showcase some personality which was nice. This was, though, a Sidekicks episode, the title doesn't lie. It's about Angel, then Spike, then the CMC, then the rest of the pets, very schizophrenic in its approach. I think trying to get too many faces in screen-time may have hurt it, but I liked it regardless.