Zilean's Revenge (Part 2)

Not even sure what the initiative order is anymore... Just hollar when I can revive Horizon.

You know Zarhon, it was kinda unfair of you to not tell us what the hidden effect did. It's not like in character there was a possibility Skitter wouldn't realize it wouldn't be very difficult to harm him.

Ramsus wrote:You know Zarhon, it was kinda unfair of you to not tell us what the hidden effect did. It's not like in character there was a possibility Skitter wouldn't realize it wouldn't be very difficult to harm him.

...Ramsus, I remember a discussion we had about not necessarily revealing all of the mechanics of how the enemy attacks right away. It involved a long, drawn out argument regarding "controlling the rider vs controlling the raptor." You chose not to tell us the specifics until we took a chance to verify it.

There's a difference between not knowing specifics and having no clue. And as I recall that was more just me wanting you guys to think things through and ask the right kinds of questions. In the end you found out all the info to that OOC before it was of effect in combat.

Well, in regards to that:

1) I reveal info that directly relates to you peeps, once you are in a position to figure said info out, or are affected by it directly. For instance, I don't keep a secret what the afflictions put onto you do, even if their effects aren't immediately obvious, like with the "enfeeblement" spell, or the extra grappling effects.

2) The stuff I don't reveal is that which you couldn't possibly, or couldn't precisely know, due to not being related to you directly, and not having seen it's exact effects in action befor. For instance, traits effects, or said "hide" ability - how would Skitter, or any of you, know that it grants him exactly 5 resist, and treats attacks as weakened, without hitting him? Same thing goes for some of the stuff related to the zombies, or stuff that you can't keep track of, such as Pips.

3) Having mystery or unknown factors in a fight adds to the challenge and fun of it. How many adventurers know by default that a mummy has "mummy rot"? Or that a medusa can petrify you? Or that using a fire spell on a zombie-tree would have been a bad idea? Traps, or unexpected tricks, after all, can be part of combat.

4) If I didn't make the ability vague in its effect, and outright explained what it did from the get-go, you obviously wouldn't have attacked it. Sometimes, taking risks in combat is a factor. Sure, it may have made the attack weaker, but who's to say it couldn't have had a different effect entirely, if you chose to ignore it? Revealing mechanics makes it far too easy for PCs to prioritize in combat, or making "the obvious" choices (for instance, attacking an enemy that uses "perfect focus", or NOT attacking an enemy with "Slashback"/"Vengeance is Mine"). Not having that luxury (due to not knowing what will happen) forces making a gamble, which you may or may not end up profiting from. Brony would have made such a gamble with not using his reaction earlier, were it not for his retcon.

5) Brony can, via dominate, learn pretty much all of an enemies abilities in their effects - this still doesn't allow him to know exact details, however, just vague information, at least until he sees it in action - for instance, a zombie's slam attack would be described to him as "attack a single enemy, and have a chance to 'grapple' them, which gives zombies a benefit and a negative status on an enemy", before seeing it in effect, and "deal 1d10 damage and coin toss to 'grapple', which does blah blah blah..." after seeing it.

6) I provided you with info that the cultist "hid" inside his mob-crowd. You could have come to your own conclusions as to what this did - for instance, it might have acted like attacks were blinded, or redirect damage to a different target entirely, or have some sort of delayed effect. Remember the "Whelk" boss from Final Fantasy 6?

7) Nothing prevented you from using a weaker / non-minus-PiP ability to determine what the effect might have done, if you felt like not risking pips for vague info. Whether you used a strong or a weak attack, you now know most of what the effect does, and can use that to your advantage for future occurrences, coordinating around it.

8 ) If you play your RP right, you are viable to learn certain vague "combat info" before combat occurs, or possibly even during it (as a minor, or standard action, depending on the type of skill check you use).

*sigh* I'm not arguing against any of that. My issue was that a simple sounding thing like "hide" made him practically invulnerable to normal attacks and this wasn't in any way clear. If it had been either just the halving damage or the resist 5 that would have been what I'd figure as reasonable to not know but, both together seems pretty hard to have no clue about until in the middle of the attack. (Btw my attack should have done 6 damage. 16 base damage / 2 = 8 - 5 (resist) = 3 + 3 (vulnerability) = 6.)

Edit: Also you might want to keep in mind doing things that make people's crits completely useless doesn't make them very happy. Especially when they could have chosen to do more damage or such instead.

Anyway, whose turn is it?

Took vuln3 into account. And what are you talking about, when were your crits "useless"? When you inflicted a 5 ongoing + 3vuln (8 damage per round), which the cultist may or may not save against?

Right now, it's the zombies turn. But first I need to clear things up with Lynt.

Lynt, you targeted Crick, and adjacent to him was "Zombie Bob" (newly summoned), and "Ick". You didn't hit/target Zombie Jack. You want to proceed with this?

For reference, here's the initiative order, which I've already posted earlier:

Jeraylia - 18
Cultist & Mob - 16
Zthulan - 13
Skitter, Shadow Wraith, Blood Mite - 12
Rolf - 7+5= 12
Zombie Jack - 10
Zombie Bob - 9 <----- Adjacent
Crick - 8 <----- Targeted by Rolf
Ick - 5 <---- Adjacent
Horizon - 5
Zombie Al- 1

EDIT: On an unrelated note, can those of you who wrote some backstories onto google docs (for Horizon, Rolf, Skitter, I believe) link those again, and could Lynt then compile those to the first page post for easy access? I need to reference em.

Alright, so Initative is adjacency? Got it. In that case, I'd like to target Zombie Bob, who'll take 10 damage, with the adjacents being Zombie Jack (9+3) and Crick (9).

As for the stories, just scroll down to the "locked" Zilean's Revenge thread. All of the stories should be there.

Alright, combat!

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The newly-summoned zombie takes the brunt of the blow, but the allies next to don't take it very well - Both the first zombie and the pale zombie go down. In response, the remaining zombies rush and attack Jeraylia!

Zombie Combat:

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You can use your revival now, Zthul, if you want to revive Horizon just as his turn comes up, so he can act. Will you?

Cultist&Mob are lowest hp now.

Zarhon wrote:EDIT: On an unrelated note, can those of you who wrote some backstories onto google docs (for Horizon, Rolf, Skitter, I believe) link those again, and could Lynt then compile those to the first page post for easy access? I need to reference em.

That's gonna be fun. I might just have to write the other part now, if you're actually using stuff.

By my reckoning, Zthulan's turn came immediately after the Cultist KO'd me. Did he not take his turn, or did he do something else or what?

Zarhon wrote:And what are you talking about, when were your crits "useless"? When you inflicted a 5 ongoing + 3vuln (8 damage per round), which the cultist may or may not save against?

Well let's see, he won his flip vs the Blind and he's been shown to do things that aren't attacks so that's probably what he'll do on his next turn. The vuln 3 is totally outdone by resist 5. And resist 5 completely cancels out ongoing 5. So that's what I meant.

Skitter's backstory is linked in his character sheet.

As the fight continues Zthulan focuses a spells from the otherworld. Eyes closed he focuses his effort to reviving his fallen ally, who awakens invigorated with a powerful rush of energy.

Combat:

Um... I don't think Jer or the Cultist have gone yet so, I'm not sure how it'd be Az's turn yet.

Crap.... Yeah Sorry I took "Use your revive" to "Just take your turn." Because I am pretty sure I missed my turn... But I am not entirely sure...

Revive is a free action, so you can pretty much use it at any point of combat you wish, if you can pay the cost and have an unconscious ally to use it on (It's pretty OP). Was just asking if you were going to use it before Horizon's turn (which usually is the best time to do so, to avoid them getting hurt and not have them waste a turn KO'd).

The syphon life and resulting special move would have been out of your turn though (there's still Horizon, Zombie Al, Jeraylia and the cultist's turn before you can use a standard + minor action) so can't accept that. Edit those two out. You didn't miss your turn, you used it to give everyone 3 temp hp - The revive is just an extra you can do whenever.

I also have to point out, Zthulan, that you're using an outdated version of Miracle - that's supposed to be 3d12, not 4d12 hp restored.

From Handbook:

[-3] Miracle – Free Utility

Target unconscious ally regains 3d12 hp.

Horizon gets up to 21 hp then (without the 4th roll).

Your turn, Horizon.

My turn, and I take it I still have 5 ongoing?

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Horizon stirs from where he fell. He slowly gets to his feet, mumbling something about "... m'fine... gimme a minute..." He steadies himself, allowing his focus to return. "Gonna kill someone..."

Spoiler:

Well, if I manage to stay upright for a whole turn, I should be good.

@ Ramsus: I designed that move before the battle started - the fact that it negated your special came simply because I didn't expect such an interaction with your special in the first place. The same can be said with pretty much anything you do in this fight, really, since this is pretty much the first actual fight you've had, and you've got the advantage of a level and items to further complicate it as well. I can't balance combat effectively without seeing it in action. Consider the whole fight "testing ground" for future ones.

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One of the defeated zombies suddenly stands up again, and assaults the shadow wraith!

Zombie Al:

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Jeraylia's turn.

Jeraylia cringed as Horizon went down. Well technically he went up, as he was practically launched from the cultist's vicinity. Still, she saw Zthulan quickly revive him with his magics, and she herself waded to his side, parrying aside attacks against her and striking at the zombie beside the ranger. Seeing the cultist take cover behind his mob, Jeraylia quipped, "What a coward! Hiding away after throwing such a pathetic attack. You can run, but all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't stop me from removing your kidney! The left one!"

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Combat:

Summary: I take 5 from ongoing damage. Ick takes 6 damage, horizon gains 5 temps. Cultist&Mob subjected to Mocking Melody(save ends).
By the way, when I got attacked by those two zombies, those single target attacks were resisted 2 by my armor. Just so you know how I only took 4 damage from them.
Saving throw against ongoing 5: 3 ( 1 + 2[iron will] )

Jeraylia:

Alright, "Ick" is destroyed.

Will do the cultist's action later, don't have his stats right now.

Update!

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The final pale zombie falls, broken from the assault. Shortly afterwards, the cultist emerges from hiding, and fires off a bouncing bolt at Rolf!

Combat:

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Zthulan, you're up.

Seeing Horizon up but still woozy Zthulan tosses him a waterskin. "Drink this, it will definitively help. Just a little mind you." The texture of the liquid is like tea and once swallowed Horizon feels more vitality returning.

Combat:

Zthulan's Stats:

As more zombies fall, more skullballs are formed. Skitter notes how the zombies keep getting back up and says, "This is getting tiresome.", then twirls his sword in a weird way the makes it look like it became a 2D object for a moment, and shadows pour out of it into the skullballs and the shadow, causing the skullballs to apparently go mad and claw at whatever is nearest to them before exploding and the shadow to split in two.

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You know.... Skitter was at lower health than Horizon was before that last heal... Oh well, guess I'll handle healing Skitter on my own.
Actually after checking, almost everyone was at lower health than Horizon.

Spoiler:

Just a reminder, new/updated combat items are up, but they aren't being taken into account for this fight yet, since that would just confuse matters.

No need to update them officially just yet, but would be nice to compare what was changed - I believe some items had their cost altered (and might be breaking the 4k gold limit at the moment), among other things (Rolf's ring is now a coin toss effect, I believe).

Didn't effect my items, thankfully.
Edit: Oh, wait my rabbit filled hat got better in a way that doesn't effect me. *shrug*

The changes appear to be:

Horizon's
- Boomstick got nerfed to a single use
- Quickblade is no longer a [0] ability, but a [-3] one, for more damage.

Jeraylia
- Iron Shield costs 500 extra gold
- Defensive Blade is completely absent. Maybe it was removed?

Skitter
- Got an extra effect on his hat that affects conjuration weapons, which he doesn't have.

Zthulan
- Regen armor is now 2 instead of 3
- Spellblade costs 1000 more gold, has it's "move in initiative" effect replaced with "make a saving throw", and it's trigger is now "attack made with a standard action".

Rolf
- Ring of strategic now coin tosses to see if you avoid attack, or just get temporary hp.
- Robes of the reaper no longer give a damage bonus to weakest guy, and are 500 gold cheaper.


Yeah, once you get to the mayor, you'll have to go on a new shopping spree it seems.

Did you miss my post where I did my turn? Because we're certainly going to need to see how that resolves before the next person takes their turn.