Let's make some Flaws!

Hm, losing the magic point seems very severe (or otherwise, does nothing, for those that used it), and it doesn't make much sense losing it from what is essentially a 1-minute nap.

"Quick, use your element of harmony ability!"
"I can't, I fell asleep randomly for 1 minute!"

Maybe have it apply a "drowsyness" for a number of hours, giving a skill check penalty instead? You could balance it so that it affects from 1-5 minutes, which would make it a bit more "flaw-like".

Or have short naps cause your next narcolepsy to be easier to trigger/last longer (So first narcolepsy requires 30+, next one needs 25+ and is 2 mins longer minutes longer, and so on...)?

This Flaw now holds the record for Most Iterations. Hoo-ee...

How's this:

----

Narcoleptic (Take 4)
Whenever you roll more than 30 on a skill check, roll 2D6, and divide by two (round down). You fall asleep for that many minutes, and can not be awakened by any force known to ponies.

If you slept for 1-2 minutes, you suffer from -3 Morale until you fall asleep again.
If you slept for 3-5 minutes, nothing happens.
If you slept for 6 minutes, all of your Magic Points and X/Day abilities are restored, as though you had an extended rest. You can only restore this way once per day.

----

Hmm, I suppose I could come up with a few:

Identity Issues:
You gain a +10 bonus to checks made to convince others you possess a certain allegiance/skillset/appearance, but get a stackable -1 morale penalty every time anypony -friend or foe- acknowledges your persona as being fake. (Up to -5 max?)

Blunt Magic:
(Prerequisite - It's Witchcraft)
You gain a +10 bonus to totally removing magical effects, +0 when removing effects without damaging a physical object, and -10 to affecting magical effects without destroying them.

CalorieMage:
Begin the day with an extra magic point, but treat all Endurance checks nat10 or below as critical failures if you fail to eat a meal every 6 waking hours; starting with a required breakfast.

Crashmaster:
(Prerequisite - Flight)
You gain a +10 to Brawn checks while flying, but suffer a -10 to Precision checks; in addition, failed precision checks while flying cause 1d8 damage.

Delicate Flyer:
(Prerequisite - Flight)
You gain a +10 to Precision checks while flying, but suffer a -10 to Brawn checks; in addition, failed brawn checks while flying cause 1d8 damage.

Deep Focus:
Gain a +10 all Knowledge checks, but roll Perception whenever you make one; if you SUCCEED the check to perceive the ambient stimuli (DC whatever the PH feels like) treat the knowledge check as a crit failure.

Diurnal/Nocturnal/Crepuscular:
Gain a +3 to all checks made during the day/night/shortly-before-and-after-sunrise-and-sunset, but suffer a -2 to all checks made at other times.

Disaster Magnet:
Shake off ongoing ill effects twice as quickly/easily at the cost of the following:
-Once an hour, be hit by a random object for 1d4 damage
-After every stealth check, roll 1d4; if one, run into a musical instrument that you could have sworn wasn't there a moment ago
-When eating any food not prepared by yourself or an ally roll 1d4; if one, suffer a -3 morale bonus from food poisoning for 8 hours
-Roll 1d4 after each extended rest; if one, do not gain a magic point.

Magically Overcharged:
Flip a coin after every extended rest.
-If heads, start the day with an extra magic point
-If tails, start the day on fire (1d12 less max hp for the day)

Oh, also, what does that '(Take X)' mean?

Z2 wrote:Oh, also, what does that '(Take X)' mean?

Means it's the Xth version/iteration. You know, like when movies are recorded and they do "multiple takes" for a scene?

Holey socks, that's a lot of Flaws!

My thoughts in green, just to shake things up.

Z2 wrote:

Identity Issues:
You gain a +10 bonus to checks made to convince others you possess a certain allegiance/skillset/appearance, but get a stackable -1 morale penalty every time anypony -friend or foe- acknowledges your persona as being fake. (Up to -5 max?)

This one needs a way out of the penalty; I would suggest that when a successful check is made this way, the penalty goes down again.

Blunt Magic:
(Prerequisite - It's Witchcraft)
You gain a +10 bonus to totally removing magical effects, +0 when removing effects without damaging a physical object, and -10 to affecting magical effects without destroying them.

Needs some re-wording, but sounds okay otherwise...

CalorieMage:
Begin the day with an extra magic point, but treat all Endurance checks nat10 or below as critical failures if you fail to eat a meal every 6 waking hours; starting with a required breakfast.

The penalty here is either WAAAY too low, or very poorly worded; probably both. While I applaud attempts at additional Magic Points, this one needs a make-over.

Crashmaster:
(Prerequisite - Flight)
You gain a +10 to Brawn checks while flying, but suffer a -10 to Precision checks; in addition, failed precision checks while flying cause 1d8 damage.

I like this one. A bunch. It'd go well with Meep!

Delicate Flyer:
(Prerequisite - Flight)
You gain a +10 to Precision checks while flying, but suffer a -10 to Brawn checks; in addition, failed brawn checks while flying cause 1d8 damage.

Ditto with Crash Master.

Deep Focus:
Gain a +10 all Knowledge checks, but roll Perception whenever you make one; if you SUCCEED the check to perceive the ambient stimuli (DC whatever the PH feels like) treat the knowledge check as a crit failure.

+10is rather high. Also, it shouldn't depend on intentionally failing a Perception check; that just makes no sense the way it's worded.

Diurnal/Nocturnal/Crepuscular:
Gain a +3 to all checks made during the day/night/shortly-before-and-after-sunrise-and-sunset, but suffer a -2 to all checks made at other times.

This needs to be broken up into several talents.

Disaster Magnet:
Shake off ongoing ill effects twice as quickly/easily at the cost of the following:
-Once an hour, be hit by a random object for 1d4 damage
-After every stealth check, roll 1d4; if one, run into a musical instrument that you could have sworn wasn't there a moment ago
-When eating any food not prepared by yourself or an ally roll 1d4; if one, suffer a -3 morale bonus from food poisoning for 8 hours
-Roll 1d4 after each extended rest; if one, do not gain a magic point.

I don't understand the bonus? Also needs some re-wording.

Magically Overcharged:
Flip a coin after every extended rest.
-If heads, start the day with an extra magic point
-If tails, start the day on fire (1d12 less max hp for the day)

Change the penalty into a morale or MP penalty and it's good.

Do you want to edit these yourself? Or should I go ahead and do so myself?

This thread is getting chock-full of interesting ideas.

Do you folks have a formula or system of guidelines yet for how to make flaws that will avoid the problems other systems have suffered when they've used flaws?

I don't think there is any, other then trying to keep them self-contained far as I can guess... Maybe... *shurgs*

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:This thread is getting chock-full of interesting ideas.

Do you folks have a formula or system of guidelines yet for how to make flaws that will avoid the problems other systems have suffered when they've used flaws?

Could you expand that by giving some examples of problems other systems have had about flaws?

Sure thing. =)

Flaws have traditionally been a source of ridiculously silly min/maxing. Guest comics in Friendship is Dragons even alluded to it, what with mentioning the variety of flaw-based characters from 3e. R2D2 in darths and droids, the character that took short and mute to max mechanic, is another example.

Flaws tend to be designed to give players incentives to create characters with interesting downsides, but in practice players often go to absurd lengths to minimize and downside and maximize the upside. It's such a common practice it's become a running joke, there's even webcomics highlighting it.

Players are incredibly creative at finding strange ways to minimize or eliminate the drawback of any flaw while maximizing their performance. This creates an unbalanced party and a lot of very strange characters/situations that detract from the consistent reality of the game.

However, it's also clear that flaws can be done in ways that help the game. Derp has worked surprisingly well, it's a popular talent and gives the character a lot of added flavor. I feel it works because the drawback is unavoidable and ever-present. It can be mitigated (and is designed to be mitigated) through the use of rerolls and such - but that takes up rerolls that the players could normally use on other things. It also doesn't get in the way of roleplaying or the normal course of an adventure. Critical failures do happen in adventures, derp just provides more of them. On the other hand, if your pony has a chance of collapsing unconscious for 6 hours - that can really get in the way of further adventuring. It's a speedbump in the session. When Derp triggers, it accelerates the plot in a negative direction - it doesn't stall the plot.

So, I was wondering if you've worked out a framework for how to make flaws in a positive way. It's difficult, and there's a reason why we haven't made many more. They're hard.

No particular formula. The only sure fire way to tell if it's overpowered is mental trial and error.

My battery is getting low, so I'll go ahead and edit Z2's flaws when we get home. At which point, I believe they will be ready for the Almighty Dan.

I look forward to looking over them all.

"Oh Buck" is not a flaw at all. It's merely a talent that has a chance of negative effects (see: 1/3 of all combat talents).

A flaw should (generally) be: A general or passive penalty, with a conditional or active bonus.

Aaaaand done!

Calorie Master and Disaster Magnet still need help though...

Also updated Narcoleptic.

We now have (if I counted right) 37 Flaws! Wheeeeeee!

Now, granted, I don't expect all of these to make it past Dan and his team of demonic ninja monkeys I mean developers. But still, THAT is an accomplishment!

A team of demonic ninja monkeys...

Anyone else feeling a new boon idea here?

Sorry. Rio is playing in the background as I'm posting...

Hmm, a formula (this is just my personal idea here):

1. Both the penalty and the flaw should be concrete and mechanical, with no ambiguities or room for interpretation. It should be clear to everyone when the penalty is triggered. Derp passes this, as the penalty-trigger is obvious (rolling a 2 or 3), and the bonus is both mechanical and gives a variety of player choices.
   
2. (after reading Dan's analysis) The penalty and bonus should both be as widely applicable as possible to prevent people trying to minimize the penalty by avoiding the situations that trigger it. Derp fits this, because the penalty has a chance of happening whenever a skill check is attempted, so people can't really avoid it without being mostly irrelevant to the campaign. The extra Magic Point also has extremely wide applicability, and greatly increases player choice.

Those are the main things that stand out to me for making a good flaw (is that an oxymoron? ). Unfortunately, those two guidelines are pretty limiting. Though while typing this, I just had an idea: what if there were a standard list of penalties and bonuses that could be mix'n'matched to make unique flaws costing a utility talent each? I can't think of many penalties that fit both of my guidelines, though...pretty much "Increase crit-fail range," "take a penalty to skill checks," and "start day with fewer Magic Points".

Not sure if this would work, but maybe you could assign a cost to various penalties and bonuses, and so that "increase the crit-fail range by 2" could be equal to "gain an extra Magic point at the start of each day" (which is just Derp), while "increase the crit-fail range by 1" could be equal to, say, "get a +1 bonus to all your skill checks" or "get twice as many uses each day for all your utility talents". Just some ideas to get people's brain-juices flowing.

Also, a little late, but I prefer my original Gant Ego name to The G and PT, which implys you can only play one sort of character with it...then again mine kinda does too....maybe we need a new name?

@ Philadelphus: That does sound like a plausible idea... but, I'm afraid someone else will have to work on it. I've about had enough of making/reviewing Flaws, I want to start testing them!

@ Whiteeyes: I'll put some thought into it...

Workaholic / Cutie Poxed
You have an obsession with your cutie mark/expert skill, or currently highest skill. You HAVE to use it. ALL THE TIME. For each consecutive skill checks (success or failure) that don't use the designated/cutie mark skill, or any failure with the designated skill it, you gain a stacking -1 penalty to all non-related skill checks, but gain a +1 bonus to the designated skill. This bonus is added to the roll itself, and may trigger a critical failure or success, respectively, if it would bring the roll within the required margin (e.g. rolling a nat3 with a -2 penatly would make it a critical failure). This penalty is removed on a critical success with your designated skill, or reduced by 1 for a regular success.

Eternal Pessimist
You do not regain a magic point after an extended rest or start of a new session. Instead, when you achieve a critical success in any skill, you gain a magic point and free use of a single magic point talent. If you achieve a cutie mark critical success, you gain a magic point and do not need to pay magic points for any abilities for the rest of the day.

Amnesiac
On character creation, designate any number of utility talents. At the start of each session/day, flip a coin for each. If tails, the talent will randomly switch into a different one that you don't already own. You may spend a magic point to restore a talent switched this way.

Snail's Pace
You are unable to walk, swim, fly or otherwise move faster than trotting speed on your own accord (others can move you freely). You suffer a -10 penalty for attempting athletics or acrobatics checks that require speed, but in return, may treat any roll made for athletics/acrobatics that do not meet this criteria as though you rolled a natural 12 on the d20 (you may still roll normally if you so desire).

Added Zarhon's Flaws. Sorry that took so long.

Am attempting to Google Docify these now.... Aaand failed, for now; it's after midnight. Yawn.

Hyperkinesis
Prerequisites: Ponykinesis
Your magic is powerful, but unsubtle; you deal more with brutish magical force than with fine manipulation. Your strength at Ponykinesis is tripled, allowing you to lift objects up to 75 pounds in weight. However, whenever you attempt to use a form of fine magical manipulation (i.e. It's Witchcraft, analyzing a magical artifact, working with small machine parts with magic), roll 1d10. On a 1, you screw up, causing damage to the thing you're manipulating and often sparking unwanted magical effects.

Question about this one, It also triples the weight of the more advanced forms of ponykinesis, right?

My call would be yes, it does. However, that one would have to be up to the GM ultimately.

Mother Nature's Mare
This flaw has two variants. Choose one, or both. You gain an extra magic point for each you pick.

Enemy of all living things - The inhabitants of the wild have a grudge, hate, or other negative reaction to you. Whenever dealing with a neutral, non-speaking wild animal or similar creature (such as bunnies, bears, wolves, birds...), such creatures will automatically regard you as hostile, and is likely to assault, hinder, inconvenience, murder and/or devour you immediately (allies are ignored and mostly safe from such animals. They may attempt to prevent the animals from severe hostility via combat or persuasion). You cannot have animal magnetism along with this flaw. There is also a random chance per day of being assaulted by such animals from seemingly nowhere.

Nature's wrath - The inanimate, semi-sentient, and non-sentient forces of nature are out to get you. Whenever outside, in a non-urban envirovment, or in the wild, there is a chance of being inconvenienced or outright assaulted by such forces. These forces may include, but are not limited to:
- Weather effects (homing tornados, hurricanes, thunderstorms, clouds, rainfall...)
- Seismic effects (miniature fissures, localized earthquakes, miniature volcanos, geysers, landslides, falling rocks, meteors...)
- Plants animating for the sole purpose of inconveniencing/assault (vines tripping the player, toxic flowers that spray pollen, pony-eating plants...)
- Semi-sentient plants or elementals (timberwolves, treants, rock/clay/earth/wind/fire/water golems or elementals...)

To determine what will inconvenience the player, the DM rolls a 1d20 at the start of each day, and may confront the player with the effect at any point they wish during that day (they may disregard logic/laws of physics for this purpose, similar to using the tons of fun table - a bear might appear out of a lunchbox, or a room might start randomly flooding, for instance). The challenges or punishments are taken from appropriate tables, or the DM/Player may make their own. The DM may also cause the relevant effects to apply for situations where they would or could be expected (for instance, in the middle of a jungle, a player is likely to get assaulted). Effects will not actively attempt to harm players without this flaw.

Enemy of all living things
1 - Hydra
2 - Cockatrice
3 - A pack of timberwolves
4 - Tiger
5 - Thieving, trickster ferrets
6 - Bear(s)
7-8 - Squirrels, armed with nuts
9 - A regiment of pony-sized ants
10-11 - 1d10 swarms of bees
12-13 - Shark (any kind, land and/or sea)
14 - Various birds
15-16 - Phoenix firebombing
17-18 - Parrots with annoying & inconvenient voice/sound mimicry
19 - Bunny stampede
20 - Nothing happens. Whew!

Nature's wrath
1 - Localized volcano
2 - Localized flooding
3 - Geyser
4 - Angry Trees/treants
5 - Thunderstorm
6 - Liquid rainbow of doom
7 - Random type of elemental or golem
8 - A sentient pony-eating plant, disguised
9 - Monsoon weather
10 - Explosive plants
11 - Homing tornado
12 - Poison joke
13 - Plants will animate just enough to hinder the player
14 - Annoying cloud
15 - Sonic rainboom
16 - Rolling giant boulder, homing
17 - Land/rock/mudslide
18 - Hallucinogenic mushroom spray
19 - Pebble-sized meteor
20 - Nothing happens. Whew!

AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

That scares me! It really does!

From an IC perspective, I mean.

Wow.

Okay, "Mother Nature's Mare" is now officially my favorite potential Flaw yet.

But here, have another.

Volatile Temperament
Pick one trained skill or Cutie Mark skill. Every time you fail a skill check involving the selected skill, your Critical Failure range and Critical Success range in that skill both increase by 1. Both ranges reset to their default once you roll a Critical Success or Critical Failure in the selected skill or once you reach the end of the day, whichever comes first.