8 Point Template for races

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8 Point Template for races

Post  LoganAura on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:52 pm

Probably should explain- The developers are busy with rehashing the trait system, so while updating to 8 points is /going/ to be official, they haven't been able to work on it. Soooo, why don't we go back to the roots of the forum and HELP MAKE RACES!
Edit: Try to use official ones, since those are appropriately balanced.
Ideas for the templates go here.

Pony Tales:
Unicorn
Earth Pony
Pegasus
Changeling
Griffin
Hippogrif
Baby Dragons
Minotaur
Donkey
Bison
Other

Might also put the LL races below here. (Actually will. Need more D&D races.)
Warforged
Human
Elf
Dwarf
Halfling


Last edited by LoganAura on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  tygerburningbright on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:54 pm

Shall we use this as a chance to make new Racials or just use the ones we have now?
Edit you forgot Donkeys... does anyone use them anyway?
Edit 2 and Bison
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  LoganAura on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:58 pm

Fixed. And like I added, try to keep to the official Racial Skills. Otherwise the ones that are made might not be balanced right.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  tygerburningbright on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:07 pm

Right then here are hippogriffs and griffons

Griffon :
With the claws, head and wings of an eagle and the powerful body of a lion; Griffons are some of the fiercest predators in the sky. Descended from both the proud lions and the haughty eagles - Griffons can often hold a sense of superiority over other races. However, it’s nothing a few well-meaning pranks can’t cure.

Clever Tail (1)
Your race’s tail can function much like another hand. You can use it to stealthily manipulate objects and make mechanics checks. When you do this, you gain a +5 bonus to stealth checks made to conceal this action, but suffer a -5 penalty to the actual manipulation. For example, if you try to surreptitiously pick a lock with your tail without attracting attention, you’d gain a +5 bonus to the stealth check to avoid attracting attention but suffer a -5 penalty to the actual act of lockpicking.

Feline Grace (1)
You take no damage from falls.

Mimicry (1)
You can make your voice sound like anyone or anything, gaining a +6 bonus to Persuasion checks made to imitate the sound of another creature or thing.

Half Eagle (3)
Griffons can walk on clouds and fly with poor maneuverability (you take -10 penalty to precision and athletics skills while flying). It takes practice to fly with grace and options for that appear in the utility talents.

Half Lion – 1/Day (2)
Characters of your race can put on a terrifying display, terrifying a creature that can see you for the next minute. Creatures gain +5 to persuasion checks when attempting to intimidate a terrified creature.

Hippogriffs :

The Hippogriff a legendary creature, supposedly the offspring of a griffin and a horse. Like a griffin, it has the head of an eagle, wicked talons and wings covered with feathers. The rest of its body is that of a horse. It is said that these creatures can fly as fast as lightning.

Thunderborn (1)
Characters of your race are immune to any electricity below the voltage level of an adult storm dragon’s breath, including most natural lightning. Characters of your race can also spit small bolts of electricity at will. These bolts are identical to regular lightning in many respects and, outside of combat, are capable of the sort of things that lightning can normally do.

Eagle’s Wings (3)
Hippogriffs can walk on clouds and fly with poor maneuverability (you take -10 penalty to precision and athletics skills while flying). It takes practice to fly with grace and options for that appear in the utility talents.

Horsepower (2)
Hippogriffs gain a cutie mark.

Fast As Lightning - Magic (2)
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. By spending a Magic Point, a Hippogriff can fly at a rate of a 100 miles-per-second for the next minute. However, few Hippogriffs can endure a full minute at this pace. Flying at this blistering speed is incredibly dangerous; a Hippogriff and any passenger it might be carrying takes 1d20 damage for each second spent flying at this speed.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:16 pm

Earth Pony
CM (2)
Friend in Deed (aka Pack Mentality) (3)
Epic Pwny (aka Adept) (3)

Unicorn
CM (2)
Ponykinesis (1)
Spellchild (4)
Specialist (1)

Pegasus
CM (2)
Weather-Crafter (1)
Flight (3)
Stubbornness (2)

Changeling
A Thousand Faces (3)
It’s Almost Like Flying (1)
Ponykinesis (1)
CM (2) (Note: We're talking about Player Characters here, while they may not literally have one on their body....)
We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1) (Probably Persuasion as the default cuz... yeah.)


Last edited by Ramsus on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Zarhon on Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:04 am

Would batponies count as an "official" race?

Batpony
Cutie Mark (2)
Flight (3)
Echolocation (2)
Call Out (1)


The final (1) point racial can alternately be utilized either for Sharp Eyes (Fruitbats have good eyesight), Mimicry (combination of bat-high frequency shrieks and pony language allows them to mimic most sounds), or Weathercrafter (since they're technically identical to pegasi, just less stubborn).
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Jason Shadow on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:33 pm

Ramsus wrote:
Unicorn
CM (2)
Ponykinesis (1)
Starchild (4)
Specialist (1)

Hold on, why no more Finishing School for Unicorns? The extra Utility was one of the biggest points in favor for that race, at least in my opinion... And strictly speaking, Ponykinesis was origninally worth 2 points, so the build you have is one point over the maximum anyway. As an alternate configuration, how about:

Unicorn
CM (2)
Ponykinesis (2)
Finishing School (aka Naturally Skilled) (2)
Magical Attunement (1)
Specialist (1)

(Of course, in my opinion, Ponykinesis, like Weather-Crafter, probably should be a 1-point skill, but we really should play by the rules for now.)

Zarhon wrote:
The final (1) point racial can alternately be utilized either for Sharp Eyes (Fruitbats have good eyesight), Mimicry (combination of bat-high frequency shrieks and pony language allows them to mimic most sounds), or Weathercrafter (since they're technically identical to pegasi, just less stubborn).

As another option, why not Spider Climb (for better ease in hanging upside-down)?


Anyway, more races:

Minotaur
We're Just Good at This Stuff (1) [Should probably go in Stunts, Persuasion, or Streetwise as the default]
Attack the Day! (2)
Show Them How You Rock! (3)
No Guff from Nopony (aka Stubbornness) (2)

Zebra
Tribal Tattoo (aka CM) (2)
Bridle Gossip (4)
Cultural Knowledge (1)
Overachiever (1)


One last observation: with the 8-point system, there's just barely enough points for a Changeling configuration to have both A Thousand Faces and Changeling's Trickery... but then, they'd have to give up Natural Form. So close...
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:30 pm

Last I checked, when things get updated Ponykinesis is gonna be incentivized the same way other things are and will be a 1 point trait.

I thought Spellchild was just more interesting than the extra Utility.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:29 am

I'm Stairc and I approve of this thread.

If you guys work out race templates, even rough ones, that you like - that'll help us a *lot*.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Jason Shadow on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:32 pm

So, here's the last three races.

Baby Dragon
Fireborn (1)
Spyrotechnics (2)
Friendship is Dragons (3)
We're Just Good at This Stuff (1) [Not sure what the default skill would be, though]
Sharp Eyes (1)

Donkey
Best of the Breed (3)
Overachiever (1)
Badass (aka Spellchild) (4)

(Of course, if Unicorns do end up with Spellchild, then we might want to replace Badass with something else.)

Buffalo
We're Just Good at This Stuff (1) [Should probably go in Athletics or History as the default]
Herd Mentality (1)
Heart of Courage (2)
Thundering Hooves (2)
At High Noon Tomorrow... (aka Terrify) (2)

Oh, and here's another alternate-racial-configuration idea: For changelings, how about Adaptable? Makes sense thematically and supplies a bit of the "feel" of Changeling's Trickery...

EDIT: Okay, the last three races besides the Living Legends ones...
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:40 pm

I think Unicorns WILL end up with spellchild. It makes sense and makes them cool.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:51 pm

Personally I think that We're Just Good at This Stuff, SHOULDN'T have a "defult" trained stat... That in my mind goes against the desize statement of "no limits for players in choosing what they want" mindset the system was built to do. All it does is just a racial version of the "I've read all about it" utility.... Might be best to reword "Wer'e Just good at This Stuff" to be like:

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
You get an Extra Trained skill to choose.


But that's just my take on that racial.

On another note here be a suggestion for a non-spellchild Donkey:
Donkey
Best of the Breed (3)
Overachiever (1)
Stubbornness (2)
Badass Talent (aka Cutie Mark) (2)



Now before you tar and feather me for wanting to give them the Cutie Mark, perosnally that was what I think was missing from that race. And the Spellchild being removed from them will also help them feel different. Also if at least one pony tale's race where to have an non-butt-tatto that gains the mechanics of a cutie mark might help this system as a whole I'd believe.


Last edited by Xel Unknown on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Grey Pen The Flawed on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:59 pm

A race I'd like to see included with the updates...

Crystal Pony
Cutie Mark (2)
Shiny Coat (Grandeur) (3)
Pick One (3)
---- Friend In Deed (Pack Mentality)
---- Best Of The Breed

... Granted, my take isn't a perfectly unique race. But still, I'd really like to see a return of Friend In Deed, and I'd also really like to see Crystal Ponies made an official race.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  tygerburningbright on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:10 pm

Xel Unknown wrote:Personally I think that We're Just Good at This Stuff, SHOULDN'T have a "defult" trained stat... That in my mind goes against the desize statement of "no limits for players in choosing what they want" mindset the system was built to do. All it does is just a racial version of the "I've read all about it" utility.... Might be best to reword "Wer'e Just good at This Stuff" to be like:

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
You get an Extra Trained skill to choose.
But that's just my take on that racial.

Xel that is how the talent is already more or less.

We’re Just Good At This Stuff (1)
Choose a skill. You gain training in that skill.

It is just people don't realize that it does not apply to all members of a race because it used to.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:50 pm

Your right Tyger, but it just bugs me when I see people thinking it should be a defult of one of the talents for a race. That just doesn't make much sense in my mind.

Edit:
Perosnaly I'd enjoy seeing Griffons returned to what they were, it was awesome and I really think All-Awesome can work with this system...


Griffin
Half Eagle (aka flight) (3)
Half Lion (aka terrify) (2)
All-Awesome - 1/day (3)
Trigger: You roll a Critical Failure
Effect: You may treat that failure as a critical success. (cannot trigger a CMC of course)


Edit2:
What I think Changelings should have:


Changeling
Changeling’s Trickery (5)
A Thousand Faces (3)
Natural Form (0)
Prerequisite: Member of the Changeling Race
While you are in your natural form, you gain the utility talents Flight and Ponykinesis.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Grey Pen The Flawed on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:18 am

What I think Changelings should have:


Changeling
Changeling’s Trickery (5)
A Thousand Faces (3)
Natural Form (0)
Prerequisite: Member of the Changeling Race
While you are in your natural form, you gain the utility talents Flight and Ponykinesis.

I disagree.

Because as it currently stands, it is perfectly legal in all ways for a True Shifter to use CT and become a Quick Shifter, thereby accomplishing the exact same thing as your suggested build does in natural form. (You don't keep the other three points post-CT.) Same or similar story

Frankly, Changelings are just flat out gonna be kinda weird until Changeling's Trickery (and perhaps Natural Form as well) get updated to reflect the change in racial point maximums. And there's just not a lot for us to do about it.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:20 am

Just in what I think, we should be getting changelings back to as they were, I don't think there was much a reasion to nerf them to begin with. But that's just my views on them.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Grey Pen The Flawed on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:33 am

I don't know for sure what they were before (they had already been updated by the time I noticed Races of Equestria) so I'm going to assume that what you've listed just now is the "old changeling".

On the one hand; Splitting them into True and Quick shifters was (I think) a good idea; it makes both of them easier to understand at a glance. BUT, I do agree that Quick shifters could use a serious buff. They need something to set them apart from True Shifters; so that a True Shifter can't effectively gain all the powers of both simply by expending a Magic Point.

Sadly, there's not any one easy way to make that happen without some serious changes made to the way both respective abilities work. We would need to somehow design it so that a "real" Quick Shifter gets more out of than a True Shifter can by turning into a Quick Shifter. This would make the Quick variety a substantially more popular choice if pulled off correctly.

The question is, how?
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Waschbaer on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:29 pm

I actually like Xel's suggestion, but I'd suggest keeping Changeling's Trickery at a six-point limit and making Natural Form part of Changeling's Trickery, rather than a zero-point trait. The former is, I think, important because it means that changelings can't quite duplicate the abilities of other races. Sure, they can get close, but they still have to pick and choose what they want from the other race. This is advantageous because it avoids a balance issue with Changeling's Trickery when it's point limit is the same as the race point limit. I suggest incorporating Natural Form directly into Changeling's Trickery because, if it's a zero-point trait that uses another trait as its prerequisite, no one's going to take it without Changeling's Trickery anyway, and no one who takes Changeling's Trickery wouldn't also take Natural Form. Thus, you might as well make it part of the trait and be done with it.

Right now, Changeling's Trickery provides six points, which is less than the recommended maximum for race builds (eight points). I think this is actually a good thing. It means that it's not equivalent to actually becoming another race. That's useful because it avoids the mechanical issue where a changeling can become equivalent to any other race through a single transformation. Additionally, if the allowed point maximum for Changeling's Trickery were increased from six points to eight, logically the cost should also be increased. As it is, it's possible to get at least a little differentiation while playing a changeling (assuming the eight-point limit, of course). Mind you, that means that a transformed changeling wouldn't get quite the same benefit as the race they changed into, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


Ideeeea!: what if Changeling's Trickery stayed mostly the same (with Natural Form incorporated), but a new trait were added to extend the capabilities of Changeling's Trickery to the full eight-point limit:
New Trait:
Even Changelinger! (3)
Prerequisite: Changeling's Trickery
When transforming into another race, you may now access racial traits worth collectively 8 points, rather than 6.

That way, you can make the Quick Shifters as follows:
Changeling's Trickery (5)
A Thousand Faces (3)

And the True Shifters as follows:
Changeling's Trickery (5)
Even Changelinger! (3)

P.S. Sorry for the wall-of-text. That got away from me a bit.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:52 pm

Paying 3 points to get 2 points worth? How is that fair? Keep in mind that you're already paying a Magic Point to even do so in the first place.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:55 pm

When it comes to Changelings... It seems more a race that the Devs are going to be able to better fix better then we could I think. We still got a good deal of other races to help update. Let's skip Changelings for now?
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Jason Shadow on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:48 pm

Sounds wise to me - it would probably speed things along if we at least developed preliminary builds for the Living Legends races. I'll see if I can do something about that this weekend, assuming that no one else does before then...
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Jason Shadow on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:42 pm

Sorry for doubleposting, but anyway, here's the Living Legends races!

Living Legends Races:
Human
Expert Skill (2)
Naturally Skilled (2)
Champion of Humanity (aka Adept) (2)
Cultural Knowledge (1)

Dwarf
Expert Skill (2)
Stubbornness (2)
Heavy Labor (3)
Overachiever (1)

Elf
Expert Skill (2)
Magical Attunement (1)
Spellchild (4)
Pick one:
-What Do Your Elf Eyes See? (aka Sharp Eyes) (1)
-Falling Out of Trees a Lot (aka Feline Grace) (1)

Hawkling
Expert Skill (2)
Flight (3)
Fast as Lightning (2)
Mimicry (1)

Minotaur
Expert Skill (2)
Herd Mentality (1)
Stubbornness (2)
Taking the Bull by the Horns (aka Challenge Fate) (3)

Dragonborn
Expert Skill (2)
Terrify (2)
It's Almost Like Flying (1)
Spyrotechnics (to be made compatible with whichever option below is picked) (2)
Pick one:
-Fireborn (1)
-Thunderborn (1)
-Frostborn (1)
-Acidborn (1)

Wolven
Expert Skill (2)
Pack Mentality (3)
Scent Tracker (2)
Howling at the Moon (aka Call Out) (1)

Rishi
Expert Skill (2)
Feline Grace (1)
Nine Lives (4)
Pick one:
-Climbing Cat (aka Spider Climb) (1)
-Clever Tail (1)

Gnome
Expert Skill (2)
Personal Project (2)
Gnomish Trick (aka Deceive the Senses) (3)
Magical Attunement (1)

Automaton
Expert Skill (2)
Mechanical (2)
More Than Meets the Eye (3)
Primary Function (aka Specialist) (1)

Demonborn
Expert Skill (2)
Infernal Eyes (aka Terrify) (2)
Hex (3)
Alter Ego (1)

Okay, I'll admit that I might have indulged in a little elf-mockery when assigning their final racial trait. But affectionately, mind you.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:54 pm

Now that the trait revamp is up, I finally have time to work on 8 point races. Expect the first draft soon. I'll be using this thread actively for inspiration, you guys did a lot of great work. sunny
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Z2 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:26 pm

I'd just like to note that I have been REALLY enjoying the idea of the standard races just having an additional 2 points to spend on whatever the player so chooses. Sort of a contribution to the idea that the ponies ADAPT very well, and can get traits that are almost biological from life experience. While I like the 8 point version of creation, I can't say I look forward to getting any choices removed, if you go that route with the official release.
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