8 Point Template for races

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Hayatecooper on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:38 pm

Fast As Lightning (2) - Magic
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. By spending a Magic Point, a Hippogriff can fly at a rate of a 50 miles-per-second for the next minute. However, few Hippogriffs can endure a full minute at this pace. Flying at this blistering speed is incredibly dangerous; a Hippogriff and any passenger it might be carrying takes 1d20 damage for each second spent flying at this speed.

I'd much, much, much prefer thunderbird to this. Mainly cause spending a magic point then potentially knocking yourself out? Not fun. Maybe if the damage was lessened?
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:49 pm

We're considering taking the damage off Fast As Lightning and just making it a 2 second limit.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Hayatecooper on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:06 pm

Why not just give them a flavored version of:
The Rainbow-Dash - (Magic)
You can move up to twenty times your normal speed for the next hour as long as you’re not in combat.

I mean, I assume your aiming for the same thing, and why would anyone take a racial (Specially one that costs a magic point) when they could spend those 2 points on something else and just take The Rainbow Dash for the same effect.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  tygerburningbright on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:13 pm

May I ask why thunderborn is not being considered? Also I find myself agreeing with Hayate as to the Rainbow Dash for possible replacement to fast as lightning but only if it is truly needed.

Still have massive hate toward Thunderbird and still do not know why...
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  LoganAura on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:13 pm

Thunderbird (1)
Legends say that the hippogriff is a creature of thunder and lightning and can channel the strength of the crashing storm. Hippogriffs are immune to any naturally occurring electricity (though magical lightning bolts and similar can still harm them in combat). A hippogriff also begins the day with five charges of lightning. A hippogriff may expend one of its charges of lightning in order to give itself or a creature it can see a +1 bonus to its next skill check.

This is essentially a tweaked Thunderborn, tyger.


Last edited by LoganAura on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Nehiel Mori on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:14 pm

tygerburningbright wrote:May I ask why thunderborn is not being considered? Also I find myself agreeing with Hayate as to the Rainbow Dash for possible replacement to fast as lightning but only if it is truly needed.

Still have massive hate toward Thunderbird and still do not know why...

Well, you can change it via GE if you like; but we don't think it makes sense for hippogriffs to spit lightning.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Philadelphus on Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:44 pm

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Alright folks, here's our new concept for the Pegasus (you can see the flight utility talent revamp in the eratta thread).

Pegasus
Cutie Mark (2)
Characters of your race gain a cutie mark.

Flight School (3)
Every Pegasus can walk on clouds and fly with poor maneuverability (you take -5 penalty to Precision and Brawn skills while flying). It takes practice to fly with grace and options for that appear in the utility talents.

Weather-Crafter (1)
Preparation Time: 10 Minutes
You can to alter the atmospheric conditions in a 100-foot radius. For example, you can make a sunny day rain or a rainy day clear up within the area of effect. You can also attempt a more difficult feat, such as creating a localized hurricane or forcing thunderstrikes out of clouds to hit tall objects. These more difficult tasks require a Stunt check or Acrobatics check set at the DM’s discretion.

Falling With Style (2) - 5/Day
Preparation Time: Instantaneous
On your next skill check, you may reroll natural 1s. You also gain a +3 bonus to the check if it uses your cutie mark.
I like this. I really like this. I like starting at the -5 penalty so that you can have two pegasi with more meaningfully different flying ability (Fluttershy vs. Rainbow Dash), and also have the ability to improve by taking another talent. I agree that starting out with perfect flying ability is a bit...underwhelming, as there's nowhere to go and no way to improve. That being said, I like taking only a single talent to get to 0 (rather than two) much better, because I feel like I'm not tying up as many talents into it, or could even ignore it with fewer penalties. I also like the new Flying Ace, because I no longer feel the same compulsion to take it that I did for the old flat +5 version, and I think it remains a strong option for really dedicated fliers.

Also, Falling With Style looks great (although there's also a trait named that, so might want to re-name to avoid confusion). No crit failure chance 5 times a day, plus a +3 bonus to cutie mark skills? Yes please! I'll be honest, I'm building a pegasus character for my next campaign and with the upgrade to 8 points I was planning on replacing the previous 2-point racial trait you had put forward with some others, but with FWS I'm kinda torn now.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:03 am

Here's our current template for Hippogriff. Last chance for feedback, we'd like to release the 8 point races tonight or early tomorrow!

Hippogriff [Created by JasonShadow]
The Hippogriff a legendary creature, supposedly the offspring of a griffin and a horse. Like a griffin, it has the head of an eagle, wicked talons and wings covered with feathers. The rest of its body is that of a horse. It is said that these creatures can fly as fast as lightning.

Confirmed Traits

Horsepower (2)
Hippogriffs gain a cutie mark.

Thunderbird (1)
Legends say that the hippogriff is a creature of thunder and lightning and can channel the strength of the crashing storm. Hippogriffs are immune to any naturally occurring electricity (though magical lightning bolts and similar can still harm them in combat). A hippogriff also begins the day with five charges of lightning. A hippogriff may expend one of its charges of lightning in order to give itself a +1 bonus to a skill check that uses its Cutie Mark skill.

Eagle’s Wings (3)
Hippogriffs can walk on clouds and fly with poor maneuverability (you take -10 penalty to precision and athletics skills while flying). It takes practice to fly with grace and options for that appear in the utility talents.

Fast As Lightning (2) - Magic
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. For the next two seconds, you may move at a speed up to 30 miles per second. Moving this fast is extremely dangerous, meaning that a Hippogriff carry one person at a time while moving at these speeds. When you use this talent - you may spend a Magic Point to increase this speed to 60 miles per second instead.


Last edited by Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:09 am

I still say you should give them thunderborn. Say that they're shoting the small bolts of elecitry out of their claws... But that's just my suggestion.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Hayatecooper on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:12 am

Fast As Lightning (2) - Magic
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. By spending a Magic Point, a Hippogriff can fly at a rate of a 50 miles-per-second for the next two seconds. Flying at this blistering speed is incredibly dangerous; a Hippogriff may not carry more than one passenger while flying at this speed.

Still say this is pointless, it might be better at 1/day then as a Magic Point considering again The Rainbow Dash. Then then again most DMs aren't going to say no to swapping it out I guess. Other then that is looks fine.

Maybe wait a bit before releasing it to give more people a chance to see it and comment?
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:14 am

You can indeed swap it out using Genetic Engineering (a 2 point racial trait can easily be spent on a utility talent - it's rules legal).

However, we want to give them something more unique to themselves - and it's worth noting that this talent is amazing as a get-out-of-jail free card. Especially with Phase Step. Cool
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Hayatecooper on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:19 am

*shrugs*
I guess. But yeah, might want to hold off on posting it for a day or two. Just encase more people want a look/have ideas. It's a fairly massive update after all.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:19 am

Plus if it costs an MP it means you at least need to put a minor amount of effort to combo Fast as Lightning and The Rainbow Dash to get 2000 miles in 2 seconds.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Hayatecooper on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:21 am

Ok, hadn't thought of that of that Ramsus, good point. That's fair then.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:53 am

Sadly, Ramsus, I and the other designers crunched the numbers on The Rainbow Dash and realized it was a completely unbalanced and confusing talent. After realizing it was really confusing for DMs (they'd have to figure out what an athletics check meant in terms of miles per hour then multiply that - which was something we, the designers of the system, didn't even know how we'd do off the top of our heads) and that it would allow even a human running at 7 miles an hour to kick into 140 miles an hour - much less a fast-flying-pegasus... We decided to redo things to be simpler and ended up with this concept to use for *both* The Rainbow Dash and Fast as Lightning.


The Rainbow Dash/Fast As Lightning - 1/Day
For the next two seconds, you may move at a speed up to 30 miles per second. Moving this fast is extremely dangerous, meaning you may only carry one person at a time while moving at these speeds. When you use this talent - you may spend a Magic Point to increase this speed to 60 miles per second instead.

Hopefully this creates better gameplay for everyone... Easier times for DMs and makes The Rainbow Dash less painful to take - since you don't need to spend a magic point on it.

*braces himself for outrage*
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:55 am

*braces himself for hugs*

What? Someone has to be playing the optimist.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  sunbeam on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:58 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:
Thunderbird (1)
Legends say that the hippogriff is a creature of thunder and lightning and can channel the strength of the crashing storm. Hippogriffs are immune to any naturally occurring electricity (though magical lightning bolts and similar can still harm them in combat). A hippogriff also begins the day with five charges of lightning. A hippogriff may expend one of its charges of lightning in order to give itself a +1 bonus to a skill check that uses its Cutie Mark skill.

Eagle’s Wings (3)
Hippogriffs can walk on clouds and fly with poor maneuverability (you take -10 penalty to precision and athletics skills while flying). It takes practice to fly with grace and options for that appear in the utility talents.


-Can you spend more than one charge from Thunderbird on the same skill check? If so, you may want to add a clause mentioning it.
-Isn't eagle's wings supposed to be up to -5 now, instead of -10? It's the same three point racial the pegasi get.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Hayatecooper on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:00 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Sadly, Ramsus, I and the other designers crunched the numbers on The Rainbow Dash and realized it was a completely unbalanced and confusing talent. After realizing it was really confusing for DMs (they'd have to figure out what an athletics check meant in terms of miles per hour then multiply that - which was something we, the designers of the system, didn't even know how we'd do off the top of our heads) and that it would allow even a human running at 7 miles an hour to kick into 140 miles an hour - much less a fast-flying-pegasus... We decided to redo things to be simpler and ended up with this concept to use for *both* The Rainbow Dash and Fast as Lightning.


The Rainbow Dash/Fast As Lightning - 1/Day
For the next two seconds, you may move at a speed up to 30 miles per second. Moving this fast is extremely dangerous, meaning you may only carry one person at a time while moving at these speeds. When you use this talent - you may spend a Magic Point to increase this speed to 60 miles per second instead.

Hopefully this creates better gameplay for everyone... Easier times for DMs and makes The Rainbow Dash less painful to take - since you don't need to spend a magic point on it.

*braces himself for outrage*


So.. you're nerfing The Rainbow Dash, Buffing up FAL and making it once per day with the option to spend a Magic Point? I guess that could work... I mean it looks pretty fast and kinda useful though the 2 second limit for 30 miles an hour could be buffed back to a minute just keep the damage off. Specially if you weren't damaging Pegasus for going faster then that for an hour.

My two cents anyway... Luna I'm being pushy this arvo.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:02 am

Yep, that post was outdated - it was updated in the doc for only a -5 penalty.

Here's the updates once more. Wonder what JasonShadow thinks of his creation after all these mutations.

Hippogriff [Created by JasonShadow]
The Hippogriff a legendary creature, supposedly the offspring of a griffin and a horse. Like a griffin, it has the head of an eagle, wicked talons and wings covered with feathers. The rest of its body is that of a horse. It is said that these creatures can fly as fast as lightning.

Horsepower (2)
Hippogriffs gain a cutie mark.

Thunderbird (1)
Legends say that the hippogriff is a creature of thunder and lightning and can channel the strength of the crashing storm. Hippogriffs are immune to any naturally occurring electricity (though magical lightning bolts and similar can still harm them in combat). A hippogriff also begins the day with five charges of lightning. A hippogriff may expend any number of its charges of lightning in order to give itself a +1 bonus to a skill check that uses its Cutie Mark skill for each charge expended.

Flight School (3)
Hippogriffs can walk on clouds and fly with poor maneuverability (you take -5 penalty to precision and athletics skills while flying). It takes practice to fly with grace and options for that appear in the utility talents.

Fast As Lightning (2) - 1/Day
Legends say that Hippogriffs can fly at the speed of lightning and it’s true that Hippogriffs can reach blisteringly fast speeds for very short amounts of time. For the next two seconds, you may move at a speed up to 30 miles per second. Moving this fast is extremely dangerous, meaning that a Hippogriff carry one person at a time while moving at these speeds. When you use this talent - you may spend a Magic Point to increase this speed to 60 miles per second instead.


Last edited by Stairc -Dan Felder on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Xel Unknown on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:32 am

Still say you should have them get Thunderborn.... Other then that they do look cool.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:01 am

Well you can always swap it out. Another 1 point racial option isn't bad anyhow.
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  LoganAura on Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:09 am

Am I the only one who sees Thunderbird as what Thunderborn is going to be post-changes? No? Hm.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Ramsus on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:26 pm

It's not actually. Dan posted the new Xborns last night (in the Eratta thread). Thunderbird is a similar but entirely different trait. I checked that with Dan in about three different ways of asking the question so I'm pretty sure I'm right about that. =P

Btw, in all the hubbub, did True Shifter ever get a more clarified version?
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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Philadelphus on Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:45 am

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Sadly, Ramsus, I and the other designers crunched the numbers on The Rainbow Dash and realized it was a completely unbalanced and confusing talent. After realizing it was really confusing for DMs (they'd have to figure out what an athletics check meant in terms of miles per hour then multiply that - which was something we, the designers of the system, didn't even know how we'd do off the top of our heads) and that it would allow even a human running at 7 miles an hour to kick into 140 miles an hour - much less a fast-flying-pegasus... We decided to redo things to be simpler and ended up with this concept to use for *both* The Rainbow Dash and Fast as Lightning.


The Rainbow Dash/Fast As Lightning - 1/Day
For the next two seconds, you may move at a speed up to 30 miles per second. Moving this fast is extremely dangerous, meaning you may only carry one person at a time while moving at these speeds. When you use this talent - you may spend a Magic Point to increase this speed to 60 miles per second instead.

Hopefully this creates better gameplay for everyone... Easier times for DMs and makes The Rainbow Dash less painful to take - since you don't need to spend a magic point on it.

*braces himself for outrage*
Ooo, I like this. I'm all for better definitions of vague terms like "twenty times your normal speed". No Magic Point Cost is also nice.

I do have a clarification question, however: does this simultaneously increase your agility to super-pony extremes, like Dash does at various points in the show? Because simply being able to fly super fast, without a corresponding turning/stopping ability, while nice, would be fairly limiting in my opinion. To give a concrete example of what I mean: in our last session, our pegasus used The (old) Rainbow Dash to fly around the BBEG's castle, setting several bombs at various key points, then flew back (in the span of a few seconds) to join the party on our (level 9 boon) airship as we sat back and watched the fireworks. Obviously such a maneuver would require making several turns of varying degrees, so would it possible to replicate that behavior with this new version?

Basically, when I read it, I think of moving that fast in a linear direction. But would it also be possible just to do, say, 30 1-mile laps around a track in one second? Because if the answer is 'yes', then I think it's suitably awesome.

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Re: 8 Point Template for races

Post  Stairc -Dan Felder on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:45 am

Yes, you can indeed replicate that behavior. However, your DM might require you to make some athletics or acrobatics checks for such behavior (nothing obscenely high, but enough to recognize that it is indeed challenging to pull such stunts off).
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