Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

They would only get one action. It's one thing that keeps the amazingness of Gather Energy in check.

Videocrazy wrote:Phillip and I have got a bit of a dispute going. It started with Critfisher:

[+3] Critfisher – Standard Utility
Choose one;
A) Roll two dice of your choice from amongst d8s, d10s and d12s (you could choose to roll both dice from one of these types, or a mix from amongst these types).
B) Pay 2 pips. If you do, roll five dice of your choice from amongst d8s, d10s and d12s (you could choose to roll all five from one of these types, or a mix from amongst these types).

I believe that the PiP gain or loss comes before any effects. Therefore, you can activate Version B even if you're at zero PiPs, and will end up with a net result of +1 PiPs. Phillip argues the reverse, where you make any payments before you gain or lose PiPs, and therefore you'd get a +1 net gain of PiPs, but need at least two PiPs to start with before you can use Version B.

This argument kinda spilled over to other abilities that mention payment, including Wave of Zeal, and the Handbook is rather unclear on this point, so clarification would be appreciated.

Actually according the way the rules are written, you are correct:

Before the name of the talent a pip cost is listed in brackets “[X]”. Before using the talent, you must be able to complete the pip cost. Weaker abilities cost [0] or even add pips to your total as you conserve your energy in combat with less taxing attacks. Stronger abilities have a cost that requires you to subtract pips from your total. If you don’t have enough pips to subtract, you can’t use the ability. If you know how planeswalkers work in Magic the Gathering, you know how this works too.

Boldness added to point out where your interpretation is directly backed up.

Headshot... I must know, the "double damage" thing. That means total damage is doubled, not just the roll's damage, right? That make it really awesome and open to some amazing combos. If not, that a total shame... And I'd like to know why not?

Yep, all damage is doubled until someone breaks it absolutely in half. =)

[-8] Family Recipe - Standard Attack
Target creature is dazed (save ends), weakened (save ends), suffers a -2 penalty to saving throws (save ends) and suffers vulnerability 5 (save ends).

Why is it an Attack and not a Utility?

Edit:

[-1] Haunting Melody - Standard Attack
Roll a d10. Based on the roll, target creature suffers the following.
1-4 The target suffers 4 ongoing damage (save ends).
5-7 The target is dazed (save ends).
8-9 the target suffers vulnerability 2 (save ends).
10 the target is stunned (save ends).

Same question for Haunting Melody.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Yep, all damage is doubled until someone breaks it absolutely in half. =)

I already see a way to turn it into a 1d6+2d6+1d12+6 damage rolled total but that needs two traits, being bloodied, and uses three other talents to bump up the damage. Don't think that brakes it. After all it's only a 1/3 odds of getting doubled.

Midnight's Blade+Meditate combo platter? Hmm...Maybe add Royal Command (From another party member) for optimum overkill? Possibly Where it Hurts if you're willing to risk them saving from whatever ongoing you can stack before you can set up this absurd combo...Short of Pincer Maneuver spam to build it up, it's a lot of turns for a shot at...Lessee...

(6+1d6+2d12+1d8)*2= ...20-44 damage for ~10-12 pips from you and 10 from whoever drops Royal Command...Of course, outside of teamwork to get you the absurd number of pips, in the number of turns to properly set this up, you could probably just end up dropping It's Over! for the same basic effect. O_o 12-144 damage for 17 pips. Suddenly It's Over looks downright efficient in comparison. Who'd've thought you'd see that day, huh?

Videocrazy wrote:
Why is it an Attack and not a Utility?

Same question for Haunting Melody.

Attacks used to have a very specific meaning before we put the keyword on things. Now an attack or utility is pretty much whatever we say it is. Check out the player's handbook's keyword list to see what I mean. This lets us be more specific about which attacks we want to interact with which abilities.

Xel Unknown wrote:

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Yep, all damage is doubled until someone breaks it absolutely in half. =)

I already see a way to turn it into a 1d6+2d6+1d12+6 damage rolled total but that needs two traits, being bloodied, and uses three other talents to bump up the damage. Don't think that brakes it. After all it's only a 1/3 odds of getting doubled.

Yep, not broken. Just sounds awesome.

Caden2112 wrote:Midnight's Blade+Meditate combo platter? Hmm...Maybe add Royal Command (From another party member) for optimum overkill? Possibly Where it Hurts if you're willing to risk them saving from whatever ongoing you can stack before you can set up this absurd combo...Short of Pincer Maneuver spam to build it up, it's a lot of turns for a shot at...Lessee...

(6+1d6+2d12+1d8)*2= ...20-44 damage for ~10-12 pips from you and 10 from whoever drops Royal Command...Of course, outside of teamwork to get you the absurd number of pips, in the number of turns to properly set this up, you could probably just end up dropping It's Over! for the same basic effect. O_o 12-144 damage for 17 pips. Suddenly It's Over looks downright efficient in comparison. Who'd've thought you'd see that day, huh?

All of that sounds like a ton of fun.

Regeneration... Do it stack? I think it doesn't, but unless I mistaken it doesn't clearly state that.

You're absolutely right, it doesn't stack. I should clarify that.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Yep, all damage is doubled until someone breaks it absolutely in half. =)

That's very unfair. You're allowing the same kind of mechanic there that you banned Syphon Life from taking advantage of.

Yes. Because Syphon Life would be too powerful if it could take advantage of that. That's kind of how game balance works.

Which means Headshot is too powerful for doing the same thing but replacing healing with double damage. That's kind of how game balance works.

I desgaree... For Syphon Life healing is 100% going to happen. For Headshot you only have a 1/3 chance of getting double damage...

Oh no. Only a 1 in 3 chance of doing 50 damage when you should be doing 25 while using a +PiP move. *rolls eyes* It's obviously broken, I don't even know why you're debating it.

And furthermore Headshot cannot trigger your critical hit and the fact it doubles its its base damage doesn't trigger effects like vulnerability twice - which is the issue that would make Syphon Life too powerful. They're completely different scenarios.

Edit - It's a very simple calculation. Headshot has a 66% chance of dealing 2.5 average damage (1-4 inclusive) and a 33% chance of dealing 11 average damage (5-6 inclusive then doubled). 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 +2.5 (four chances in six) added to 11+11 (two chances in six) gives you 32. Divide by 6 to find out the real average and you get 5.333 repeating average damage. That's a little less than 1d10 and can't trigger a special. The only reason it's not underpowered is because you can combine it with Unacceptable for better numbers. Also, it can't get double the effect from damage boosts the way effects like Syphon Life can if you tie the amount you heal to the amount of damage you deal.

It's not broken at all.

Base damage? Xel was trying to assert that it doubled all the damage you did with that attack. If it only doubles the 5 or 6, that's fine. When you can stack Meditate and Wild Abandon on top of it and doubles all that damage is where it's broken and what I'm arguing against allowing.

How would syphon life trigger vulnerability more than once?

The only reason I'm argueing for this to be ok, was that WAS what I was talking about too... Still wont think the combat be a bad move... But Ramsus got a point if it one with one of these two cases it should work with both... The only difference is the extra crit possible.

Dr Blight wrote:How would syphon life trigger vulnerability more than once?

It doesn't. But if the amount of life you gained was equal to the amount of damage dealt, including modifiers like vulnerability, vulnerability would boost both the damage dealt AND the life gain - getting double the bang for your buck and making the talent unbalanced.

Ramsus wrote:Base damage? Xel was trying to assert that it doubled all the damage you did with that attack. If it only doubles the 5 or 6, that's fine. When you can stack Meditate and Wild Abandon on top of it and doubles all that damage is where it's broken and what I'm arguing against allowing.

Actually, it still wouldn't be broken because the 33% chance, or 40% chance if you use Unacceptable, is still a small chance of doubling the extra damage. Without Unacceptable it cuts the extra damage from doubling into thirds in expected average damage.

That said, the talent was written so only the die roll is doubled. However, if you want to try playtesting with the total effects of Headshot being doubled, including things like Wild Abandon, feel free to give it a go and let us know how it turns out.

Maybe this is more a case to remove Metate... Or up it's cost to -5.

Then I think that'd allow both to be able to do this bonus powerhouse stuff.

I am now confused by your wording. Is Syphon Life's healing based off of the damage it deals or the die you roll? In the later case Headhunter should only double the damage of the die you roll for Headhunter and not other things stacking damage on top of it, like Wild Abandon and Meditate.

Xel Unknown wrote:Maybe this is more a case to remove Metate... Or up it's cost to -5.

Then I think that'd allow both to be able to do this bonus powerhouse stuff.

Meditate is overpowered. It has been since it was printed. I just haven't heard complaints about it from anyone before now (that I can recall). I did nerf it slightly to a -2 I believe, but it's still too easy to bust. You're right though, it IS more a problem with Meditate than anything else. I'm considering erasing or redoing that combat talent.

Still, if you WERE to remove that talent. Syphon Life would be able to be used like how Headshot is suggested, right? Cause if not... Then I don't feel we've gotten anywhere here.

Again, the issue isn't Meditate. Doubling all damage is always going to be broken. No matter what. There's never been a system where it isn't broken and this one is no exception.

Edit: There are plenty of ways aside from Meditate to stack damage onto an attack.