Ask a Simple Question - Get a Simple Answer

bumping this one because I need an answer before Silent starts up

RavenscroftRaven wrote:How does Family Recipe react with You Will Die?

You Will Die is almost 100% weaker than it, not because of the higher cost (Ongoing Damage 5 is worth approximately -1 pips value, that's fine) but because it is Save Ends All. Despite You Will Die's "more powerful" set of debuffs, if I were hit with Family Recipe and an ally had 9 pips to spare, I'd ask to be hit with You Will Die since it is a joke compared to it to get rid of. ONE saving throw is really easy to make, especially with so many talents and utilities that boost that. Four separate ones guarantees I'll be subject to all those "additional wound" abilities for many, many turns (Statistically speaking, about 7 turns to get rid of all 4 debuffs, so basically the whole combat).

So I guess what I'm really asking is, if a big nasty enemy was hit with Family Recipe first, can the person applying You Will Die choose not to apply their Weakened, Dazed, Vulnerability, and/or saving throw penalties if they so chose? I'm pretty sure if it goes second this is a non-issue, and Family Recipe can easily "overpower" the prior debuffs and replace each and every one with a singular version of it as opposed to that really weak "save-ends all" aspect, except earlier you mentioned that Ignite's separate damage would be "eaten" by another debuff's Save Ends All instead of fracturing it, which may cause problems on the interpretation. Is [Save Ends All] a debuff poison to be avoided like the plague, that just eats other debuffs into uselessness?



For reference mechanically speaking:

Mechanics:

Sigh... Simple debuff-tracking is so much easier than all this.

tygerburningbright wrote:bumping this one because I need an answer before Silent starts up

RavenscroftRaven wrote:How does Family Recipe react with You Will Die?

You Will Die is almost 100% weaker than it, not because of the higher cost (Ongoing Damage 5 is worth approximately -1 pips value, that's fine) but because it is Save Ends All. Despite You Will Die's "more powerful" set of debuffs, if I were hit with Family Recipe and an ally had 9 pips to spare, I'd ask to be hit with You Will Die since it is a joke compared to it to get rid of. ONE saving throw is really easy to make, especially with so many talents and utilities that boost that. Four separate ones guarantees I'll be subject to all those "additional wound" abilities for many, many turns (Statistically speaking, about 7 turns to get rid of all 4 debuffs, so basically the whole combat).

So I guess what I'm really asking is, if a big nasty enemy was hit with Family Recipe first, can the person applying You Will Die choose not to apply their Weakened, Dazed, Vulnerability, and/or saving throw penalties if they so chose? I'm pretty sure if it goes second this is a non-issue, and Family Recipe can easily "overpower" the prior debuffs and replace each and every one with a singular version of it as opposed to that really weak "save-ends all" aspect, except earlier you mentioned that Ignite's separate damage would be "eaten" by another debuff's Save Ends All instead of fracturing it, which may cause problems on the interpretation. Is [Save Ends All] a debuff poison to be avoided like the plague, that just eats other debuffs into uselessness?



For reference mechanically speaking:

Mechanics:

Sigh... Simple debuff-tracking is so much easier than all this.

Hm... save ends all bundles... I'd recommend you seek a followup answer from Dan, but here's my ruling for now:
They can't stack of course, but they can overlap. "Stacks Duration" as GW2 puts it. In total, of course it would only be taking vulnerability 5, BUT if it saves against the Family Recipie's vulnerability before the YWD curse-bundle, the bundle keeps the vulnerability 3 going. This doesn't work with simple save-ends that only have a single effect, but special abilities in "Quotes" and bundles like this should be allowed to make someone save against both, while both don't trigger at once. The creature won't be dealing 1/4th damage for being twice weakened, but it won't be dealing full damage until it rids itself of both instances (again, this doesn't mean you can stack a simple "Weakened (save ends)" on twice). Also, penalties to saving throws? those do stack intensity, like bonuses and penalties to damage.

The system is still in flux and rules can change due to playtesting. How we've been handling complex (Save Ends) bundle questions like that is to ignore the part of the power that is redundant. I think this was answered earlier in the thread, though I could be wrong. This is kind of a complex idea, but it makes for less book-keeping once you know how it works. Certainly less than tracking multiple layers of the same effect. unlike GW2, we need to keep track of all this by hand.

For example, let's say effect A subjects your target to, "5 Ongoing Damage (save ends)" and effect B subjects them to, "5 Ongoing Damage and blindness (save ends both). Since the target is already suffering from ongoing damage, one of these 5 ongoing damage effects is redundant and doesn't take matter anymore. It's like trying to make some wetter when they're already soaking wet. So the player that used the second ability gets to choose which of the "5 Ongoing Damage" effects they don't want to matter anymore. They can either overwrite the first effect, in which case the target will now be suffering "5 Ongoing damage and Blindness (save ends both)" OR they can overwrite the part of the second effect that bestows 5 Ongoing Damage - meaning that the target is now suffering from "5 Ongoing Damage (save ends)" and a separate "Blindness (save ends)".

This also means that if effect B would only apply 3 Ongoing Damage, which is less than 5, you could choose not to apply it as part of the second effect in order to keep the higher damage from the previous effect still functioning. On the other hand, if effect B applied 7 Ongoing Damage - you'd probably want to overwrite the less powerful effect A.

Does that make sense?

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:I'm still focused on making myself unkillable with Form of the Reaper and the appropriate items/traits.

Its much more badass to survive a black hole then create a black hole.

Nehiel Mori wrote:

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:I'm still focused on making myself unkillable with Form of the Reaper and the appropriate items/traits.

Its much more badass to survive a black hole then create a black hole.

I'm right now hoping to get a character that's thanks to using the new combat talent of Guarded Stance (half damage until end of next turn) he avoided death itself... Cause that'd be PURE AWESOME!!!

That would be so cool. Share the build and story when it happens!

I already got the story planned out for how it'd go:

Answer Unknown looks at pure fear at the oncoming "Doom Move of Doom" attack... Said attack kills him. (the level of how dead depends on what attack that did over 30 damage and AU's at a low enough hit points to have make it possible to die, but I'm betting his head's ruined beyond repair) Next the dead unicorn's horn starts to dimly glow... AU's voice is heard declaring. "REALITY DECLARES ME DEAD, WELL I REJECT THAT, REALITY.... AND SUBSTITUTE WITH AN OUTCOME OF MY OWN!!!" Then with a blinding flash, from AU's horn, the Pony was standing, and alive again. "I'm...not...dead...yet...I... merely...am....sleeping..." And with that Answer falls down again and passed out.

HP: -X (higher then -30)


Now I just hope that Pony Team Bravo ends up getting an epic moment where the above had happened. :3

Bumping a few questions:

Is hurricane blade being able to juggle solo monsters via infinite loop intended?

How is crescendo affected by the boomstick trinket - Does it spread all of its attacks, or just one of the rolls?

Does the boomstick trinket copy all of the attack effects to adjacent targets, or just the damage? Does it use the same single roll used on the main target? Does it copy any extra effects (e.g. granting an ally temporary hit points) along with it?

What's the justification of the "Secret Shelter" destiny talent costing a Magic Point? (compare with planeswalker)

Will the useability of "IT IS NOT THIS DAY" be improved? For all of it's coolness, it's not really a good talent to use without an optimal/convenient situation.

(Compared to miracle or the other interrupt/free actions that use KO'd allies, it's pretty hard/clunky/situational to use it as it's intended, even when you have the required PiPs. There's no worth in taking the talent over the other stuff.)

So have a few proposals for "IT IS NOT THIS DAY":

IT IS NOT THIS DAY - Revamp A:

This gives the ability a bit more freedom in its use, and gives a slightly better chance for its target to survive (and a chance of a special).

IT IS NOT THIS DAY - Revamp B:

This is an entirely-combat oriented: It lets the KO'd pony more or less get back into the fight after a KO as though nothing happened, at the risk of getting easily knocked out afterwards, which other allies (or the user, if they have the PiPs for it) assisting their survival somehow.

IT IS NOT THIS DAY - Revamp C:

This gives an ally an extra turn to finish whatever their KO might have interrupted. Possibly broken when combined with other talents, unless the ally becomes immune to ally effects as well. Might be a bit overpowered for its cost though... maybe a -7, or -8 cost?

I say turn IT IS NOT THIS DAY into a -3 pip costing minor utility...

Zarhon wrote:Bumping a few questions:

Is hurricane blade being able to juggle solo monsters via infinite loop intended?

How is crescendo affected by the boomstick trinket - Does it spread all of its attacks, or just one of the rolls?

Does the boomstick trinket copy all of the attack effects to adjacent targets, or just the damage? Does it use the same single roll used on the main target? Does it copy any extra effects (e.g. granting an ally temporary hit points) along with it?

What's the justification of the "Secret Shelter" destiny talent costing a Magic Point? (compare with planeswalker)

Will the useability of "IT IS NOT THIS DAY" be improved? For all of it's coolness, it's not really a good talent to use without an optimal/convenient situation.

(Compared to miracle or the other interrupt/free actions that use KO'd allies, it's pretty hard/clunky/situational to use it as it's intended, even when you have the required PiPs. There's no worth in taking the talent over the other stuff.)

So have a few proposals for "IT IS NOT THIS DAY":

IT IS NOT THIS DAY - Revamp A:

This gives the ability a bit more freedom in its use, and gives a slightly better chance for its target to survive (and a chance of a special).

IT IS NOT THIS DAY - Revamp B:

This is an entirely-combat oriented: It lets the KO'd pony more or less get back into the fight after a KO as though nothing happened, at the risk of getting easily knocked out afterwards.

IT IS NOT THIS DAY - Revamp C:

This gives an ally an extra turn to finish whatever their KO might have interrupted. Possibly abusable, unless the ally becomes immune to ally effects as well.

This one pretty much gives an ally an extra turn after being KO'd.

I have to agree that IT IS NOT THIS DAY is pretty inferior to Miracle. But that's an issue for Dan.
We *probably* need to nerf the blade.
Boomstick copies all of the attacks effects, and *probably* each of Crescendo's blasts

Can't answer the other. Destinies might have powercreep that needs to be adressed.

I've got a quick question of my own.

Has anyone tried LL Player vs. Player yet? If so, how was it? I expect it wouldn't work well at all, the system wasn't designed for PvP, but I'm considering a PvP version of the game and was wondering if anyone's tried it at all.

We've tried PvP in Pony Tales.
Which works pretty well, if that counts. Though it very much comes down to who has the most regen.

Me and Kari had tried it a while back. It was funny, but not really easily applicable.

Hayatecooper wrote:We've tried PvP in Pony Tales.
Which works pretty well, if that counts. Though it very much comes down to who has the most regen.

Or alternately, who gets lucky and one-shots the other player, or who gets to pull off their mega-attack sooner. Can also confirm that a built based around domination from turn 2 is almost impossible to get out of without losing, once the domination goes off and you get into a hp/PiP disadvantage.

Actually, in regards to domination, with the newly introduced utilities/attacks, what kind of moves count as being useable against yourself? Anything with the "target creature", or stuff with "targets enemy" as well?

Also find that Summons help a good deal... And it don't work great with a one-on-one. But I've done a two-on-two that was quite fun and enjoyable.

Then again, my fight with Inky was mostly a war of attrition due to all of her damaging moves being reactions and stuff.

That's a good point. 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4 might actually be alright. Interesting.

What happens if my Derpy's Lightning procs All or Nothing after I already used it?

In fact I'd say a full 5v5 and 6v6 would be equally fair and might be fun If played with a full set of players for EACH TEAM!!!

I'm making a thread for that actually. PVP.

And now I'm thinking of trying to start up a campaign like Discord's game that's all PVP...

thematthew wrote:What happens if my Derpy's Lightning procs All or Nothing after I already used it?

It whiffs sadly.

Just making sure.

Hayatecooper wrote:We've tried PvP in Pony Tales.
Which works pretty well, if that counts. Though it very much comes down to who has the most regen.

Using a combination of Draw Blood and Misdirection works very well against a single person who has no damage over time moves, as several team members found out in out-of-character 1v1 battles. Throw in Syphon Life for direct damage, Kindle Pain to bleed them to death, and Vengeance is Mine to finish them off with their own attack damage if the opportunity arises and you have a pretty powerful build.

I didn't set out to be an undefeatable juggernaut but it was kind of fun while it lasted, until I fought someone with regen 5. I can say that regen is incredibly overpowered when it comes to PvP fights.

So is spiked armor...