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Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Philadelphus has a great eye for noncombat stuff in particular.

Thank you!

Deathstorm50 wrote:Thanks for the advice anyway. I hadn't actually considered any of that!

You're welcome!

Your second draft looks a lot better. The level 7 in particular is fantastic. In fact, it's making me want to go through all the official destinies and give them the same choice treatment. I also think that making the level 10 a 1/Day rather than Magic would be a good idea. I don't have time for a full analysis, but I'll try to sit down and give one soon.

This is really interesting and it's giving us a lot of ideas too. 

One thing though, we're really interested in making the destiny more unique by focusing on the form as a more powerful version but with the short 5 minute duration. Also, setting the attributes to 12 at level 4 would probably work well (the current 10 is arguable not quite worth it for the utility talent version - so 12 for the destiny should be very safe and gives off an aura of power).

Xel Unknown wrote:Both level 4 and level 10 seem weak, and level 10 seem to even forget how to combo with any of the options from level 7... Or if they do it wasn't built to do such a thing. I think that keeping it a magic point is a smart move. Just also getting upgraded to how the stats were to begin with before the Utility nerf was done. Like level four getting 10 or 15 to stats. Or something... And Maybe work level ten to be more upgrades like how level 7 is. Also the getting locked out of racials and utilties... Is interesting... But would lead to problems of some passivies to be non-usable and it wouldn't make logical sense. I mean if you have Airal Ace, you take this, and boom you can't fly that great now? Weird...

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:Getting locked out of utilities makes sense for a "form of the" talent and, if we do with upgraded attributes, means that it limits the amount of actual min/maxing that can happen. Getting locked out of racials makes sense for some things, but when you factor in things like Specialist - it can be odd. Of course, this form will likely set new attributes anyway so it doesn't truly matter - but there's probably some racial trait we're not thinking of that would be a similar problem.

Philadelphus wrote:Your second draft looks a lot better. The level 7 in particular is fantastic. In fact, it's making me want to go through all the official destinies and give them the same choice treatment. I also think that making the level 10 a 1/Day rather than Magic would be a good idea. I don't have time for a full analysis, but I'll try to sit down and give one soon.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:This is really interesting and it's giving us a lot of ideas too.

One thing though, we're really interested in making the destiny more unique by focusing on the form as a more powerful version but with the short 5 minute duration. Also, setting the attributes to 12 at level 4 would probably work well (the current 10 is arguable not quite worth it for the utility talent version - so 12 for the destiny should be very safe and gives off an aura of power).

Thanks for the advice and critiques! I like the idea of making the level ten a 1/day, and all attribute at 12 for five minutes for a Magic point is interesting. Should the duration increase over the level features, or not? I like the idea, but I could see that being a bit painful for DMs. Also, you liked the level sevens, Philadelphus? Thanks! I'd like to hear more advice on the level four and ten, because they need much more work in my eyes. I'll get working more on version three with current advice in mind. Thanks again for this feedback!

Edit: I've also been thinking about the natural 2 crit fails... Is it enough of a risk? It probably is, but I just want to ask you guys.

Personally I say for formatting sake, just say that level ten upgrades the level 4 thing to be 1/day as well, or just turns from a magic point into a pure 1/day talent... Or something maybe... Not 100% sure, just as long as you make sure that the level 7 can clearly combo with the level 10 feature you'd fix the biggest problems I've seen here.

Xel Unknown wrote:Personally I say for formatting sake, just say that level ten upgrades the level 4 thing to be 1/day as well, or just turns from a magic point into a pure 1/day talent... Or something maybe... Not 100% sure, just as long as you make sure that the level 7 can clearly combo with the level 10 feature you'd fix the biggest problems I've seen here.

I did intend for the level 7 powers to stack with the level ten, but I suppose I didn't really spell it out in the destiny, did I? Hehe, fixing soon.

Here's what we're thinking about at the moment. It's not exactly in line with Deathstorm's approach of course - as we're focusing the concept more around the idea of "Magic talent to enter a super-powerful form for a very, very short amount of time". Then improving that form. No flavor at the moment, just the mechanical concept.


Avatar - The Legend of You

Level 4 - The Legend Begins
Form of the Avatar - Magic
Preparation Time: 5 seconds
You enter the Form of the Avatar for the next five minutes. In the Form of the Avatar, you gain the following:

• Your attributes each become 12.
  
• You gain the ability to fly and suffer no penalty to precision or brawn checks while flying.
  
• You gain the racial traits Fireborn, Frostborn, Thunderborn, Acidborn and Waterborn.
  
• You may reroll any natural 1s you roll on skill checks.
  

While in the Form of the Avatar, you cannot use any of your other utility talents, combat talents or racial traits. You may exit the form at any time.


For level 7, we want to provide some cool options to upgrade the existing form further (no surprises there). Here are our current ideas - though they're very rough right now.




Level 7 - The Avatar Unleashed
Choose one of the following;


Avatar of Will
You are aware of all attempts to control your mind and may instantly activate Form of the Avatar in response. When you enter the Form of the Avatar, any mind-altering effects you were suffering from instantly end . While in the Form of the Avatar you are immune to mind-altering effects and can see the world around you as it really is, stripped of all magical disguises or illusions.

Avatar of Storm
While in the Form of the Avatar, you may roll 3d10 instead of 1d20 for acrobatics and athletics skill checks and roll twice on all skill checks made to fly (taking either result). You can also spend 5 seconds to alter the atmospheric conditions within a 1 mile radius. For example, you can make a sunny day rain or a rainy day clear up within the area of effect. You can also attempt a more difficult feat, such as creating a localized hurricane or forcing lightning strikes out of clouds to hit tall objects. Choose a skill when you learn Avatar of Storm, that skill becomes used for any skill checks used for these more difficult tasks - with DCs set at DM discretion.


Avatar of Spirit
While in the Form of the Avatar - you can see in the dark, you may roll twice on all skill checks made to fly and can pass through solid objects (though magical barriers and similar defenses might still affect you). In addition, you automatically detect all living creatures within 120 feet of you (knowing their precise location in relation to you).



Thoughts on the level 7 ideas: I think Avatar of Will works pretty well and Avatar of Spirit seems like a cool upgrade (go go Danny Phantom) but could probably stand some improbing. Avatar of the Storm seems kind of awkward. It's works as super-weathercrafting and the "roll 3d10" is very cool with the "reroll 1s" ability - but it just feels clunky to me.


Anyway, these are the current ideas we've stirred up. Giving the Avatar Fast as Lightning in one of these forms was thought about too (though not for all 5 minutes, THAT would be a DM nightmare).


The level 4 feature here seems to be a pretty solid base. The level 7 options though I'm not sold on. Any thoughts?

Looks awesome. :3

Great! Anyone else want to share their thoughts on this possible direction?

I suggest make there be an upgrade that relates to each of the born racials and make sure that there be level ten upgrades as well as level seven upgrades... Or at least that's how I'd build it. And make sure to note down that this thing was made with help from Deathstorm50 and myself.

Stairc -Dan Felder wrote:the "roll 3d10" is very cool with the "reroll 1s" ability

Please tell me that this isn't an actual thing that can actually happen...

I think it looks fantastic, Stairc. My ability to access a proper computer has been limited recently, so until I get that sorted more to my liking, I'm stuck on my phone. Since it's almost physically unpleasant for me to be using my touchscreen keyboard for more than texts and search queries, I can't contribute much besides small posts right now. Sorry.

On a different note, I love your level sevens, they are much better than mine. You clearly put far more thought into them than I could, in all honesty, afford to spend on the destiny, since I've had schoolwork piling up as well. Hopefully I'll be getting a home computer soon enough, and will have some proper time to do things in the digital world.

I was saying that I'd be sticking to small posts, didn't I. Well, so much for that, it's taking over seven minutes to write this out, so I need to stop. You guys are wonderful, and I can't wait to see what else you'll come up with!

I had similar Level 7 thoughts when I was brainstorming but Dan's are probably worded a little bit better.

Level 7 ideas:

ZamuelNow wrote:I had similar Level 7 thoughts when I was brainstorming but Dan's are probably worded a little bit better.

Level 7 ideas:

These are pretty good as well, Zamuel. I especially like what I shall decide to call the Terran Avatar.