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Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here
Philadelphus Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:28 am
Indeed. I think "Preparation Time" is a perfectly sufficient term. "Time" by itself makes me think "duration." But I suppose this conversation should probably move to the Errata Discussions thread rather than this one.Xel Unknown wrote:Just calling it "time" would be more confusing I'd bet not less...
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Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here
Zarhon Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:15 pm
I think the intended idea of the talent was to spend some time preparing the vehicle (when you're not in any pressure or threat to do so), and then you spend a significantly shorter time (10ish seconds) to "deploy" it. In other words, "deployment time".Kindulas wrote:I like this boon idea. It should be noted however, that the process of using a talent is the "Preperation time." We wanted to call it something like "Casting Time," but that's a term only for spells. We're considering calling preperation time simply "Time" so as to stop that confusion.
Hmm, I think I'll make a utility that works/provides that principle for the next batch of ideas...
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Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here
Zarhon Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:08 pm
Two new things for a new week!
Firstly, we have a destiny, focused on creating a clone/figment/hologram of yourself. It gradually increases in abilities, until it becomes a perfect (yet expendable) copy of yourself.
This one is meant for those that wish to have more freedom in their stats allocation, or for those that wish to have a high value in an attribute, but a low value in a corresponding skill (for instance, a skilled machinist that is incredibly clumsy, or a perceptive character that is completely uncharismatic/unsocial. Min-Maxers can use it as well, of course, but there should be little reason/benefit gained out of it, other than Roleplay flavor.
Note: If anyone has a better idea for a fitting name, I'd love to hear it - this one probably is questionable.
Firstly, we have a destiny, focused on creating a clone/figment/hologram of yourself. It gradually increases in abilities, until it becomes a perfect (yet expendable) copy of yourself.
- Soul Splitter - Destiny:
Soul Splitter
Level 4 - Spectral Copy - 1/day
Preparation time: 5 minutes
You may create a Spectral Copy of yourself, an imprint of your soul and body, lasting for 4 hours or until dismissed manually. It is capable of doing regular skill checks or assisting, applying your own attribute and training, bonuses, but with a -3 penalty, and without applying any utilities or racials. It vaguely resembles the caster, causing creatures further away than 30 feet to be unable to discern the copy from its creator. It is non-sentient and devoid of intelligence, doing nothing other than follow its creator unless mentally controlled, which requires the creator to stand still and have vision of the Spectral Copy (they may still perform other actions such as skill checks, whilst controlling their Spectral Copy) . If the SC would be "fatally" damaged, or you move further than 300 feet away from the it, it vanishes. It cannot enter or be used for combat, temporarily vanishing until combat ceases.
Level 7 -Familiar Figment
You may summon your Spectral Copy two times per day, and may control it even when you don't have vision of it, so long as you stand still. Your Spectral Copy is improved in the following ways:
- It no longer suffers a -3 penalty to skill checks.
- It gains the same utility and racial talent benefits you do, and may use them as you would, decreasing your own x/day limits to activate them. It cannot perform a Cutie Mark Critical Success, even if it would have a Cutie Mark, cannot have its own companion, cannot gain MPs from racials or utilities, and cannot benefit from MP-drain abilities (yet).
- It now closely resembles you, forcing creatures within 30 feet to roll a DC20 skill check to discern it from yourself.
- It now has limited sentience and intelligence, acting like a golem that can obey your commands, and follow non-complex orders and directives.
level 10 - Spectral Soulmate
Your spectral copy is now a perfect copy of yourself, in body, mind, and soul. You may now summon your spectral copy three times a day, as well as control it as you would control yourself/your own character, so long as the SC is within a mile of you. You may see/hear/feel through its own viewpoint at all times.
The copy is improved thusly:
- It now uses its utilities and racials (copied from you) independently from you, using its own x/day uses.
- It gains a Magic Point of its own after each extended rest.*
- It is capable of copying you perfectly, forcing creatures within 30 feet to roll a DC40 check to discern it from your actual self.
- It is as "intelligent" as you are, capable of performing and enacting complex orders or plans, carefully coordinated to your abilities.
- It is no longer restricted in Cutie Mark Critical Sucesses.
* If it has an MP-drain ability, then it doesn't, gaining that benefit instead. It still cannot gain MPs from other abilities, such Derp.
This one is meant for those that wish to have more freedom in their stats allocation, or for those that wish to have a high value in an attribute, but a low value in a corresponding skill (for instance, a skilled machinist that is incredibly clumsy, or a perceptive character that is completely uncharismatic/unsocial. Min-Maxers can use it as well, of course, but there should be little reason/benefit gained out of it, other than Roleplay flavor.
Note: If anyone has a better idea for a fitting name, I'd love to hear it - this one probably is questionable.
- Savant - Racial:
Savant (1) - Variant A
When you take this racial, choose a skill. You may permanently allocate any number it's attribute-gained points* to another skill of choice, up to your maximum attribute limit**. You may take this racial multiple times, picking different skills each time.***
Savant (1) - Variant B
Prerequisite: Specialist
When you take this racial, choose a skill. You may permanently allocate any number of it's attribute-gained points* to another skill of choice, up to your maximum attribute limit**. You also gain a +1 bonus to that transferred-to skill, ignoring the limit. You may take this racial multiple times, but must pick different skills each time.***
* The value above your minimum, not counting trainings, cutie marks, or other skill boosts. Specialist applies to this limit.
** Overachiever applies, bumping the limit to 12 (ignoring non-attribute boosts).
*** So if you pick Persuasion, and transfer its points to Endurance, you can't pick either of those for any other copies of this racial.
Example: You've got a mechanic with 10 Precision, and thusly 10 Stealth/10 Acrobatics/10 Mechanics, but you wish to have a low acrobatics value (because your character is clumsy). You can take the Savant racial and pick Acrobatics, which allows you to take up to 5 points from it, to another skill of choice. You can't put it in Mechanics (because that would put it above your standard limit of 10), but you can put it in a non-maxed skill like Endurance, which you've got a value of 5 in. This would boost it up to 10, whilst reducing your Acrobatics down to 5. Effectively, you "drain" your attribute points from one skill, and transfer them to another, within their usual maximum / minimum limits (you can use Specialist & Overachiever to increase the range of these limits, or already have it as a prerequisite, depending on the two variants).
Last edited by Zarhon on Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here
Fury of the Tempest Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:13 pm
Savant comes across as very, very dangerous due to how much you can abuse it with min-maxing.
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ZamuelNow Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:12 pm
Savant probably shouldn't allow you to take it multiple times. That could get really problematic.
Anyways, my first submission for the new week:
Anyways, my first submission for the new week:
- Utility - Questionable Credentials:
- Questionable Credentials
You may roll History instead of Persuasion on skill checks to trick or deceive.
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Zarhon Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:24 pm
Possibly, but then what if you want to have two weak skills, or some other unique mix of stats?ZamuelNow wrote:Savant probably shouldn't allow you to take it multiple times. That could get really problematic.
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Kindulas Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:30 pm
Savant does feel min/maxy, but I get the intent. I've found myself bothered by things like "So my character is asocial but good at noticing things. So, he has really high perception but... huh... I guess he has decent persuasion too...?"
It's like building a hothead sorcerer character in 4e where, obviously, they need to have super high Charisma because sorcerer-skills and willpower. But... they're supposed to be socially inept, why is there diplomacy so high? I don't want that kind of charisma!
I see you're trying to get this to work while keeping the normal ceilings, which is good, but the wording is really confusing. Still, if we can figure out a non-super min/maxy solution good solution to these problems without re-writing the system to not have attributes, that would be great
It's like building a hothead sorcerer character in 4e where, obviously, they need to have super high Charisma because sorcerer-skills and willpower. But... they're supposed to be socially inept, why is there diplomacy so high? I don't want that kind of charisma!
I see you're trying to get this to work while keeping the normal ceilings, which is good, but the wording is really confusing. Still, if we can figure out a non-super min/maxy solution good solution to these problems without re-writing the system to not have attributes, that would be great
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Fury of the Tempest Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:32 pm
I guess although it can encourage min-making, it also helps greatly from a flavour/RP sense...
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Stairc -Dan Felder Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:42 pm
Would this be most easily solved by scrapping the whole 'attribute' thing and just letting players allocate points between various skills? Wouldn't that provide more room for roleplaying concepts?Kindulas wrote:Savant does feel min/maxy, but I get the intent. I've found myself bothered by things like "So my character is asocial but good at noticing things. So, he has really high perception but... huh... I guess he has decent persuasion too...?"
It's like building a hothead sorcerer character in 4e where, obviously, they need to have super high Charisma because sorcerer-skills and willpower. But... they're supposed to be socially inept, why is there diplomacy so high? I don't want that kind of charisma!
I see you're trying to get this to work while keeping the normal ceilings, which is good, but the wording is really confusing. Still, if we can figure out a non-super min/maxy solution good solution to these problems without re-writing the system to not have attributes, that would be great
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Fury of the Tempest Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:45 pm
That would make more sense yes... but at the same time, it hugely inspires min-maxing to the extreme. Even with same/similar liminations.
So I think that such an idea should not be implemented.
So I think that such an idea should not be implemented.
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ZamuelNow Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:06 pm
I don't know. I can see the reasoning behind it and it seems good. The problem is players explicitly building things to try to cover weaknesses AKA dump stats. Taking tons of Perception and Arcana using points from other stats so they are all seeing and can react to anything without actually ever being challenged. That's why I think using it once for a single skill might be okay but not allowing it multiple times. A suggestion:
- Savant:
- Savant (1)
You may permanently move up to 5 skill points from one skill to another skill within the same attribute. This may not exceed the normal attribute limits. [*]- Sidebar comment:
- The normal attribute minimum is 5 and the maximum is 10 unless you have Specialist or Overachiever which move the minimum and maximum to 3 and 12 respectively.
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Zarhon Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:10 pm
Hm, perhaps this rewording would work?
It's probably still min-maxy, and a lot less flexible, but it's a lot more clearer. The three skills option, or the stackability, is up to balancing / designated build-breakers (you know who you are) to figure out if it's balanced.
Edit:
If you have say 6 in Precision, you can only choose say acrobatics, take 3 points from it, and give those 3 to either mechanics or stealth. If you have 10 points in precision, you can't do anything due to the limit not allowing you to go over 10 (you can take 5 points from stealth and then you can't give it to neither stealth nor mechanics, due to the 10 limit being reached already, and you have to give to one of those by the "within the same attribute" wording).
It would need Overachiever and/or specialist to actually do anything for characters with 10 or 5 in a attribute, or that are "maxed/minimized" in an attribute. It's a bit counter intuitive since the idea is to get low skills with high "related" attributes.
- Savant - Rework?:
- Savant (1)
Choose one:
- Permanently swap the attribute bonus totals of a chosen skill with that of another chosen skill.*
- Permanently swap the attribute bonus totals of three different skills between each other.**
Trainings, cutie marks, and other non-attribute bonuses are not swapped. You may take this racial multiple times, but cannot re-pick skills already affected.
*E.g. Swap from 10 Persuasion and 5 Endurance, to -> 10 Endurance and 5 Persuasion. This doesn't swap trainings and cutie marks.
** E.g. Swap from 10 Persuasion, 5 Endurance and 8 Stealth, to -> 8 Persuasion, 10 Endurance and 5 Stealth, or some other combination of the three.
It's probably still min-maxy, and a lot less flexible, but it's a lot more clearer. The three skills option, or the stackability, is up to balancing / designated build-breakers (you know who you are) to figure out if it's balanced.
Edit:
Wait, how does this work, if its within the same attribute?ZamuelNow wrote:I don't know. I can see the reasoning behind it and it seems good. The problem is players explicitly building things to try to cover weaknesses AKA dump stats. Taking tons of Perception and Arcana using points from other stats so they are all seeing and can react to anything without actually ever being challenged. That's why I think using it once for a single skill might be okay but not allowing it multiple times. A suggestion:
- Savant:
You may permanently move up to 5 skill points from one skill to another skill within the same attribute. This may not exceed the normal attribute limits.
- Sidebar comment:
If you have say 6 in Precision, you can only choose say acrobatics, take 3 points from it, and give those 3 to either mechanics or stealth. If you have 10 points in precision, you can't do anything due to the limit not allowing you to go over 10 (you can take 5 points from stealth and then you can't give it to neither stealth nor mechanics, due to the 10 limit being reached already, and you have to give to one of those by the "within the same attribute" wording).
It would need Overachiever and/or specialist to actually do anything for characters with 10 or 5 in a attribute, or that are "maxed/minimized" in an attribute. It's a bit counter intuitive since the idea is to get low skills with high "related" attributes.
Last edited by Zarhon on Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:31 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Ramsus Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:15 pm
I don't really see a problem with this. It's not really making you any stronger (in fact it costs a racial and thus makes you a bit weaker), it just lets you focus on what you want to use. It would certainly help with a lot of concepts that require skills from all four attributes but, by no means every skill in the game that are currently basically impossible to build properly right now. (For example: Ninja.)
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Zarhon Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:20 pm
I think the problem arises when you get a character who maxes out the "big important" skills, tacks on specialist/overachiever to make them max valued, then tacks on bonus trainings/bonuses to untrained from utilities.Ramsus wrote:I don't really see a problem with this. It's not really making you any stronger (in fact it costs a racial and thus makes you a bit weaker), it just lets you focus on what you want to use. It would certainly help with a lot of concepts that require skills from all four attributes but, by no means every skill in the game that are currently basically impossible to build properly right now. (For example: Ninja.)
Only question is how far such a character can go in its OPness, and if it's actually fun to play with/against/as, as a "skills only" character.
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Fury of the Tempest Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:32 pm
That does seem much better put together/worded.
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Philadelphus Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:14 pm
Challenge accepted!Zarhon wrote:Only question is how far such a character can go in its OPness, and if it's actually fun to play with/against/as, as a "skills only" character.
- Super OP Magecraft character:
- Racials: Overachiever (1), Specialist (1), Savant (2) x2, Expert Skill (2). You still have 2 left over for whatever you want after this.
- Use Overachiever and Specialist to get the following stat block:
Brawn: 4
Precision: 5
Knowledge: 12
Horse-Sense: 3 - Use Savant twice to swap your 12s in History and Heal with your 3s in Perception and Persuasion. Put Training and your Expert Skill in Arcana.
- Take "I've Read a Lot About It" to get two more Trainings, and put them in Perception and Persuasion. Put your last training wherever you feel like it, say Acrobatics. Your skills now look something like this:
Athletics & Endurance: 4
Acrobatics: 8
Stealth & Mechanics: 5
Arcana: 20
History & Heal: 3
Perception & Persuasion: 15
Streetwise: 3 - Take Magical Tricks and Magecraft.
- You now have a Magecraft character with a base 20 in Arcana at level 1, along with 15 in both Perception and Persuasion, and you still have 2 Racial points and 3 Utility Talents left to take. Take "I've Read a Lot About" again if you want to bump your Brawn or other Precision skills.
Verdict: being about to take Savant multiple times is just asking for min-maxing. Savant on its own might be OK, though really, it just encourages making a dump stat of one skill so you can buff another.- Racials: Overachiever (1), Specialist (1), Savant (2) x2, Expert Skill (2). You still have 2 left over for whatever you want after this.
On the topic of suggesting new stuff, here are some ideas I've had rattling around in my brain for Streetwise and History, both of which could really use some Utility Talents:
Survival Instincts – 5/day
On your next Streetwise check, you gain a bonus to the check equal to 1/2 the number you roll on the d20 used for the check. You may also re-roll natural 1s.
Learned in Lore – 5/day
Preparation Time: 1 minute
You may roll twice on your next History check and take the higher result.
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Fury of the Tempest Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:19 am
My 2 submissions for this week.
Mastery of Form
Prerequisite: A 'Form of the X Talent
When this talent is selected, you choose a specific Form of the X Talent. That Talent can now be used up to 3 times a day. This talent can be taken more than once, with each additional talent being applied to a different Form of the X talents.
Mastery of Form
Prerequisite: A 'Form of the X Talent
When this talent is selected, you choose a specific Form of the X Talent. That Talent can now be used up to 3 times a day. This talent can be taken more than once, with each additional talent being applied to a different Form of the X talents.
- Luna's Rangers:
Apprentice - Level 4
Your training as a ranger has begun! Now you can move with almost no sound, blend in with the environment around you and notice what others miss. Gain a permanent +3 bonus to Stealth and Perception. You have also been given the ranger's signature tool: the bow. You gain the following talent:
Snapshot - Daily
You can perform one Shot instantaneously.
You can use the following talent with the bow:
Rope Shot
Preparation Time: 1 minute
By trying a rope to your arrows, you can get your ropes to places that they otherwise could not reach. You must have line of sight to the target location, and the rope is 150ft in length.
Ranger - Level 7
Your training is now complete. You gain the Nightwatch utility talent for free. The bonus to your Stealth and Perception increases to +5. You can use Snapshot 2/day. And you can use the following talents with the bow:
Cripple Shot
Preparation time: 10 seconds
Your aim with the blow is a dangerous thing. Choose a target within 150ft and within line of sight to you. You can cleanly hit that creature's limbs. Depending on the limb hit, you can either make the target creature drop an item they are holding or slow down their speed; or if it is a wing, make them plummet down from the sky.
Douse Shot
Preparation Time: 30 seconds
You can imbue you arrows with the darkness of the night. Allowing you to extinguish any light-source - save the sun - for an hour. You must have line of sight and be within 150ft of the target light-source to use this talent. The light-source must be no bigger than 30 cubic feet. The arrow is destroyed after it hits, leaving no trace.
For the duration of the effect, the light-source is fully suppressed. The target also gives off no heat or smoke if the light-source is a flame, such as a lit candle or brazier. When the effect ends, the light-source returns to normal, giving off normal heat and smoke if the light-source was a flame.
Flare Shot
Preparation Time: 1 minute/5 minutes
You can imbue an arrow with light that is viewable at day or night with equal intensity. You may choose to have the light be any color when you use this talent. The light has a radius of 50ft from the arrow, and can be fired from your bow to a range of 150ft. The arrow can be commanded to explode at the location desired, becoming a sphere of light 100ft in diameter at the location of the explosion. The explosion destroys the arrow, leaving no trace. Regardless of use, the light lasts for 10 minutes.
You may double all of the above (the intensity of the light, the radius of light from the arrow to 100ft, the range the arrow can travel to 300ft, the sphere’s diameter of light to 200ft, and the duration of the light to 20 minutes) by increasing the Preparation Time to 5 minutes.
Master - Level 10
You have become a master Ranger whose skills are on par with legends. Your bonus to Stealth and Perception becomes +10. You can use Snapshot 5/day. The preparation time for all your Shot talents is halved. You gain the following talent:
Mark the Target
Preparation Time: 2 minutes
You mark a target creature or location that you can see. For the next hour you know where the target creature or location is and any Shot talents to that creature or location do not require line of sight.
And you can use the following talent with the bow:
Shadow Shot
Preparation Time: 10 seconds
You can imbue your arrow with teleportation magic. You must have line of sight to the target creature or location, and the range to the target can be no more than 150ft away. You instantly teleport to the target location. If you selected a creature as the target, you appear adjacent to the target creature. The arrow is destroyed after it is used, leaving no trace.
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A1C Bronymous Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:54 am
My submissions are the trait tree I gave last week, because there was no feedback given and its rather unique:
- Multiclass traits:
- Multiclass- Trait
Select 8 different combat talents as a Secondary combat Move Set. Whenever you roll initiative, you may select either your Primary or Secondary combat talent list to take in to combat.
Prestige Class- Trait
Prerequisite: Multiclass
Once per battle you may spend a minor action to switch to either your Primary or Secondary combat Move Set (whichever you did not bring into battle).
The full post and discussion are found here: https://ponytales.forumotion.com/t627p270-official-errata-suggestion-discussion-thread-changes-you-d-like-to-see-made#55705Bronymous wrote:So, the question (to which I know the answer) is what if everyone, in addition to their 8 combat talents, also had a default attack? It would have no other benefit except to give designated healers, tanks etc., something to fight with in a one on one situation.
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Xel Unknown Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:05 am
My thoughts: LOVE Multiclass a good deal. I think the system as a whole is missing out without something like this be it used as a trait or some type of item... I don't really care for Prestige Class...Bronymous wrote:Multiclass- Trait
Select 8 different combat talents as a Secondary combat Move Set. Whenever you roll initiative, you may select either your Primary or Secondary combat talent list to take in to combat.
Prestige Class- Trait
Prerequisite: Multiclass
Once per battle you may spend a minor action to switch to either your Primary or Secondary combat Move Set (whichever you did not bring into battle).
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Stairc -Dan Felder Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:07 am
Interesting concept. As-worded though, it implies you can take all 8 combat talents into battle.
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Kindulas Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:46 am
My reaction to Multiclass is that I already hate picking 5 out of 8, now I have to pick 1 of two sets from which to pick 5 of 8? I see why it's nifty, but it also sounds like a pain.
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Ramsus Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:49 am
So.... don't take it then?Kindulas wrote:My reaction to Multiclass is that I already hate picking 5 out of 8, now I have to pick 1 of two sets from which to pick 5 of 8? I see why it's nifty, but it also sounds like a pain.
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Stairc -Dan Felder Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:51 am
Or perhaps, we can find a version of the trait that sustains what's cool about it without creating the added selection stress.
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Kindulas Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:54 am
I suppose the fact that it's only one choice for totally different sets means it really isn't that bad, and if everyone else actually likes it then yeah, it would just go under the "not for me but people like it" clause.
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Stairc -Dan Felder Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:56 am
The double choice of, "choose 8 but then choose 5" seems painful. Why not just a set of 5 combat talents that you can take into battle as a single bundle instead of your normal 5? That might make it smoother (not to mention more reasonable in terms of the versatility it offers).
Stairc -Dan Felder- Lead Designer
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