Re: New Expansions - New Content - Post your favorites here

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:27 pm

Hopefully, Kindulas will find time soon. He and I have been really busy with Spelltacular. If anyone wants to PM me their talents posted here for my feedback though, I'm happy to provide. Just might not have time for an in-depth discussion back and forth - but I can give my own impressions.

Fury of the Tempest Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:29 pm

Spelltacular?

**Paper Shadow** Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:40 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:Spelltacular?

https://ponytales.forumotion.com/t546-spelltacular-apples-to-apples-meets-dungeons-and-dragons

Zarhon Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:02 pm

More things! They're silly!

Oviparous - Racial:

Indie Adventure-seeker - Destiny:

Indie Adventure-seeker - Destiny
You are inspired by the fantastic experiences offered only by those who engage in Derring-do. As such, you have gained a unique, obstacle-solving mentality, and a particular array of skills.

Level 4:

Level 7:

Level 10:

**Philadelphus** Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:21 am

A random idea for a weapon that occurred to me this week. I have no idea what a good price for this would be, so it's just my best guess.

Tactician's Targe – Weapon – 2000 gold
When starting a battle with this weapon equipped, you roll a d12 for initiative rather than a d20. At the beginning of your first turn, you may use the following combat talent:

Charge! – Free Attack
Deal 1d12 damage to every enemy that rolled equal to or higher than you in initiative.

Basically, it's intended to be the opposite of the Seize The Initiative trait; rather than damaging opponents who come after you, you damage ones who went before you.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:24 am

Interesting. -4.5 to initiative in exchange for a crit chance and possibly slaughtering every minion in the fight.

Xel Unknown Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:44 am

And it's power would stack with the pentialy armors...

Fury of the Tempest Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:35 am

The Targe IS interesting.

I wouldn't mind pakour becoming a proper utility talent. Free running FTW!

**Philadelphus** Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:43 pm

Another odd idea playing around with initiative:

Lightning Lance – Weapon – 1000 gold
When starting a battle with this weapon equipped, you roll 3d10 for initiative rather than a d20.

This one almost certainly needs balancing by someone competent in such matters. Smile

**Kindulas** Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:41 pm

Targe is interesting, but difficult to determine balance.
3d10 for initiative is bastically a +6 bonus to initiative, since
1d20 = 10.5
1d10 = 5.5
3d10 = 16.5
16.5-10.5 = 6

So, looking at the trait that gives +8
2000 / 8 = 250,
250 8 6 = 1500
so it's 1500 gold.

Zarhon, the egg this is in fact probably too silly. You destiny, on the other hand, is a conundrum. It seems to be filled with things I can't confidently say are do-able, but also can't confidently say are unworkable... it's the kind of abstract stuff I'm not comfortable making judgements about.

I like "If you want something done right"

Innocuous Intimidation is an interesting thought, though it also seems like the kind of thing that's up to the player to use the right words than it is a utility talent. Futhermore, I am not Ned Stark and I know how this game is played...

Now, as for some things that didn't go in that I haven't said anything about:
Nick seems far too boring. It's flat damage and it's just resistance piercing, a marginal and situational ability.
Armor Piercing Slap has potential, though at the same time I somewhat fear making vuln too easy for Sneak Attack builds; it might take the fun out of more clever ways to get it though. Furthermore I'm lothe to work with vulnerability, as it's value is highly variable and hard to know, not good to work with now as we try to be more precise in our balance going forward.

Dual Form is a possibility but I don't really know how to value it.

As for poison, and the Rebuke talent as well, Dan has a hatred for adding in more keywords than are absolutely necessary. I personally like the idea of new terms, but even as he's given the responsibility to Nehiel and I his rules still go and I recommend no one bother adding keywords and terms as their submission.
As for the effects in particular

-Poison/Disease maybe has a place in a single talent, but in my experience healing enemies is a rarity, so poison would be a situational ability that would rarely ever be useful except to hamper very particular monsters.

-Rebuke, I think, is sensible to exist, albeit probably not as a keyword, unless we use pseudo keywords where every talent explains what it does and it doesn't actually need a separate rules listing (this would allow some form of templating that could stop it from stacking, much like a keyword, but that wouldn't break Dan's rules on new terms). As I understand, as a status effect it would /not/ trigger any damage bonuses, so it would be useful for a tank but not an absurd multiattack tool. Though, specifying no damage bonuses would be something that begs for a rules addition, which... at any rate, we typically balance resist for 2 attack against the user per round, so rebuke style things should be balanced as 2x the damage it deals for each round it's on someone. I imagine such a thing as a save-ends effect would be frightening with Demonscale....

-Narrow options is weird and probably too good, since you can easily make a build that cares not for a full 5 talents, or uses Prepare Spell, and then practically gets a +4 for no drawback. Okay okay, so Dark Bargain users get around THAT drawback, but the amount of talents you have isn't part of your mathematical effectiveness, and so can't be a proper drawback for a +4

-Grapple is... until the end of their next turn huh? Not sure what to make of it, though we aren't doing anything with Dazed until we remove the vuln 2... which will be very soon.

-Counterthrow is basically a -1 attack negation, since you can pop a -5 off of it. Really, attack damage negations are more around 3 pips, but the talent does have potential if we up the restriction on what powers you can use off of it. Probably if it restricts to [-] powers costing less than 3, that way you can't use a -5 AND you can't use a +3 or something in response, but you can't counterattack with Heartseeker or something.

-Dual Conjuration is another curious case where it offers naught but versatility, which has no tangible value. Still, the idea is super fun (and flavorful), so perhaps if there was some kind of pip discount that comes with it (the same logic applies to Dual Form). Perhaps give it a sub-par pre-req, then have the second weapon come free. Or... maybe not have a sub par pre-req, since technically once you spend 7 pips on a conjured weapon you're already into 2-pip-value-a-turn territory, so a second one wouldn't give you anything but versatility/another pip value from using a second vanishment ult...

-With Multipede I kind of agree with Ramsus, it's the kind of thing that you can maybe just have. At the same time, it is awkward if the situation should arise where you DO get to do something you couldn't with 2 arms, just because you said you were playing with 4... it's as you say, it depends upon the DM and playgroup, probably, as to how much your arm count is a flavor thing and how much it matters.

-Amorphous is cool. Definately 1 point, because yes, it's situation. 1-pointers are either marginally useful or, more typically, powerful in very particular situations (Speaking of which Sent Tracker is a little too situational right now). I want to add it, but it requires we have concrete rules to creature sizes, which I need to bug Nehiel to do because so far managed to wear myself out by drastically overthinking it, which I know I will continue to do, but Nehiel has been in the midst of moving...

**Kindulas** Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:55 pm

Dual Conjurer - Trait
Once per battle, you may use the following trait
[0] Dual Conjure - Reaction Utility
Trigger - You use a conjured weapon talent
Effect - you may immediately use another conjured weapon talent you brought into battle. Reduce that talent's cost by an amount of energy equal to the energy spent on the triggering talent.

So, technically that's a lot of pips - but the actual value of using multiple summon weapons is marginal, which means that normally summoning more than 1 in the course of a battle is sub-par. It is, however, lost of fun - which means what they need is support to make such strategies not sub-par. Believe it or not, I think the above it fair, since even with two weapons out you're still only getting 2 pips advantage a turn using a -7 conjured weapon - this trait gives you versatility and a second ult to use, even though it looks like it can give you . With that logic, this should perhaps not be 1/Battle but At Will

Fury of the Tempest Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:02 pm

Kindulas wrote:Nick seems far too boring. It's flat damage and it's just resistance piercing, a marginal and situational ability.

I disagree, to me its a way to consistently game damage out... maybe it could be changed though? So its 1-2 damage, but all damage that the moves deals ignores resistance, instead of just the 4 damage?

Kindulas wrote:Dual Conjuration is another curious case where it offers naught but versatility, which has no tangible value. Still, the idea is super fun (and flavorful), so perhaps if there was some kind of pip discount that comes with it (the same logic applies to Dual Form). Perhaps give it a sub-par pre-req, then have the second weapon come free. Or... maybe not have a sub par pre-req, since technically once you spend 7 pips on a conjured weapon you're already into 2-pip-value-a-turn territory, so a second one wouldn't give you anything but versatility/another pip value from using a second vanishment ult...

Don't forget Weapon Traits when taking it into account

sunbeam Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:13 pm

Kindulas wrote:Dual Conjurer - Trait
Once per battle, you may use the following trait
[0] Dual Conjure - Reaction Utility
Trigger - You use a conjured weapon talent
Effect - you may immediately use another conjured weapon talent you brought into battle. Reduce that talent's cost by an amount of energy equal to the energy spent on the triggering talent.

I may be reading this wrong, but doesn't this just let you replace conjured weapon you just conjured with another conjured weapon, before you get to use it?
Or is a "conjured weapon talent" a talent granted by a conjured weapon?

EDIT: Also, what if Nick had some sort of coin flip effect? So like this:
[+2] Nick - Standard Attack
Flip a coin. If heads, deal 5 damage to target creature, and this attack ignores resistance. If Tails, this attack does nothing.

**Kindulas** Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:23 pm

sunbeam wrote:
Kindulas wrote:Dual Conjurer - Trait
Once per battle, you may use the following trait
[0] Dual Conjure - Reaction Utility
Trigger - You use a conjured weapon talent
Effect - you may immediately use another conjured weapon talent you brought into battle. Reduce that talent's cost by an amount of energy equal to the energy spent on the triggering talent.

I may be reading this wrong, but doesn't this just let you replace conjured weapon you just conjured with another conjured weapon, before you get to use it?
Or is a "conjured weapon talent" a talent granted by a conjured weapon?

EDIT: Also, what if Nick had some sort of coin flip effect? So like this:
[+2] Nick - Standard Attack
Flip a coin. If heads, deal 5 damage to target creature, and this attack ignores resistance. If Tails, this attack does nothing.

Technically, the rules don't make it clear. So yes, this would need to have wording specifying you wield both at once

**Kindulas** Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:49 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Kindulas wrote:Nick seems far too boring. It's flat damage and it's just resistance piercing, a marginal and situational ability.

I disagree, to me its a way to consistently game damage out... maybe it could be changed though? So its 1-2 damage, but all damage that the moves deals ignores resistance, instead of just the 4 damage?

Kindulas wrote:Dual Conjuration is another curious case where it offers naught but versatility, which has no tangible value. Still, the idea is super fun (and flavorful), so perhaps if there was some kind of pip discount that comes with it (the same logic applies to Dual Form). Perhaps give it a sub-par pre-req, then have the second weapon come free. Or... maybe not have a sub par pre-req, since technically once you spend 7 pips on a conjured weapon you're already into 2-pip-value-a-turn territory, so a second one wouldn't give you anything but versatility/another pip value from using a second vanishment ult...

Don't forget Weapon Traits when taking it into account

... oh dear, that's an issue with the implementation of the "Celestial Spear" idea. The pips spent on that talent are worth more than pips spent on normal ones, which means using it in conjunction with Talisman of Weapons would be... well not egregiously overpowered but... hm...

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:33 am

Kindulas wrote:... oh dear, that's an issue with the implementation of the "Celestial Spear" idea. The pips spent on that talent are worth more than pips spent on normal ones, which means using it in conjunction with Talisman of Weapons would be... well not egregiously overpowered but... hm...

No it isn't. No matter what you were going to spend those pips on, the stuff that saves you pips is just balanced around saving you that many pips. It doesn't matter where it saves it, the same as you explained to D-Prime those months ago.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:14 am

On top of this Dual Conjuration allows for some... Interesting new weapons.

**Philadelphus** Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:42 am

Kindulas wrote:Targe is interesting, but difficult to determine balance.
3d10 for initiative is bastically a +6 bonus to initiative, since
1d20 = 10.5
1d10 = 5.5
3d10 = 16.5
16.5-10.5 = 6

So, looking at the trait that gives +8
2000 / 8 = 250,
250 8 6 = 1500
so it's 1500 gold.

Wonderful, thanks for the feedback! Very Happy

Doc pseudopolis Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:31 am

Kindulas wrote:-Counterthrow is basically a -1 attack negation, since you can pop a -5 off of it. Really, attack damage negations are more around 3 pips, but the talent does have potential if we up the restriction on what powers you can use off of it. Probably if it restricts to [-] powers costing less than 3, that way you can't use a -5 AND you can't use a +3 or something in response, but you can't counterattack with Heartseeker or something.

That makes sense, I'll put that in to the second version, maybe make second version where you need to pay for both attacks.

Quietkal Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:38 am

Resubmit, since I got "neat idea" last time.

Quietkal wrote:Inspiring Presence - Trait
At the beginning of each of your turns, you may choose up to 2 target allies. Those allies are the subject of your "Inspiring Presence" until you choose new targets.
Creatures that are subjected to "Inspiring Presence" have Regeneration 1 while you're conscious.

Bloodboil - Trait
At the beginning of each of your turns, you may choose up to 2 target allies. Those allies are the subject of your "Bloodboil" until you choose new targets.
Creatures subjected to your "Bloodboil" deal +1 damage on attacks while you're bloodied.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:45 pm

Quietkal wrote:Inspiring Presence - Trait
At the beginning of each of your turns, you may choose up to 2 target allies. Those allies are the subject of your "Inspiring Presence" until you choose new targets.
Creatures that are subjected to "Inspiring Presence" have Regeneration 1 while you're conscious.

This is neat indeed - because it's a trait that lets you apply a passive buff to your allies. We could use some more of those. However, it's not exactly exciting. Regeneration 1 isn't a big deal - over the course of 5 rounds (standard combat length for the system, though many DMs run battles that are either much shorter or longer) you're going to toss those allies at best 5 health each (assuming neither they nor you go to 0 or below, as regeneration doesn't work then). That's not much hp for a trait. Compare it to the Healing traits and you'll see how much a trait's supposed to be worth when it comes to healing. You could solve this issue by upping how much regeneration you hand out. Another way to solve it would be to make this trait a prerequisite for a whole line of traits that do cool things to the subjects of your Inspiring Presence (you could do both).

For example:

Indominatible Presence - Trait
Prerequisite: Inspiring Presence
While you are conscious, creatures subjected to your Inspiring Presence also gain +3 to saving throws.

Inexaustible Presence - Trait
Prerequisite: Inspiring Presence
While you are conscious, creatures subjected to your Inspiring Presence fall unconscious at -7 hp instead of 0

Just quick ideas, not paying much attention to balance or design of the particular traits, but it could be a pretty cool idea. Opens up new ideas for a trait line, and thus a new type of build. We like that a lot.
.

Quietkal wrote:Bloodboil - Trait
At the beginning of each of your turns, you may choose up to 2 target allies. Those allies are the subject of your "Bloodboil" until you choose new targets.
Creatures subjected to your "Bloodboil" deal +1 damage on attacks while you're bloodied.

This type of talent would make a good similar trait to Inspiring Presence - or even part of the proposed trait line. It, again, is a very small buff so it's hard to get super excited about it - perhaps getting a bigger bonus on damage 1/round would be sweeter. Then you wouldn't have to balance it for the multi-attack builds and it'd be sweeter for more players.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:54 pm

Good suggestions there Staric.

**Kindulas** Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:28 pm

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Cool trait ideas, lots of potential, but we can't feed Multiattackers any more bonuses. A 1/Round damage bonus would be really cool, though.

>.>
<.<
What if one version allowed those allies to use your talents if they wanted? I guess I'd worry that someone would take it thinking "Ahha! Now I can use my allies to complete my built-in combo really fast!" and then expect their allies to just take orders and run their combo instead of their own characters. So I talked myself out of it, but it's a funny thought.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:52 pm

A trait that allows your allies to use one or two talents, or to give an ally a talent, wouldn't be too bad...

A trait to give allies a trait would be a little silly, wouldn't it?

sunbeam Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:10 pm

https://ponytales.forumotion.com/t656-inspiring-presence#55543

Actually, what QK and I are tinkering with right now are traits that let you grant bonuses equivalent to 1 trait to 1 or more allies. So, you could grant 2 allies bonuses equivalent to a 1000 gold item, or one ally an entire trait. Right now, I think we're trying to shy away from directly porting preexisting traits into the setup, but it's basically the same effect.

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