Re: A New World (Not really full actually, at this point - would probably accept a character or two)

Fury of the Tempest Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:51 pm

Marona wrote:Yeah, that stuff you just did... that's exactly what I didn't want to have to deal with. Curunir, can you explain to me why people here put up with this? Because I don't want to have someone yelling at me, in or out of character, every time I have my character do something that person doesn't like.

Seriously, I'm not even going to respond to what he did IC. Keeper is just going to ignore him. If he presses the issue... I guess Fury can find out the result the hard way.

.... So, in otherwords, people aren't allowed to RP their character's being in character's if it has them against your character?

Wow. Such arrogance.

**LoganAura** Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:29 pm

Fury: Watch the language and the remarks, if you please. Something bothers you about someone else, contact us.

Marona: Fury has every right to play his character the way he wants to, and the way that character would act. If his character is upset at yours for some reason, and his character will respond that way, he can respond that way. In character conflicts and drama happen in any game, you can't stop them from coming up at some point no matter what game it is. As long as in character conflicts remain just that, in character, I see no reason for any sort of moderation action to be taken.

There's a difference between, using my own games as an example, my character Scales getting into conflict with another PC (Scrapper), and me as Logan getting into conflict with Scrapper's player.

Marona Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:35 pm

Ok. Well, I don't want to play with him if that's how he's going to choose to have his characters behave all the time. If I can't play my character without his bullying mine into doing what he wants the game won't be much fun for me.

Fury of the Tempest Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:54 pm

Marona wrote:Ok. Well, I don't want to play with him if that's how he's going to choose to have his characters behave all the time. If I can't play my character without his bullying mine into doing what he wants the game won't be much fun for me.

... So your character has no spine and will meekly do what my character says to do?

Huh. Considering how she flat out insulted him, I did not get that impression.

Curunir Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:01 pm

Thanks for stepping in, Logan. I was just about to respond myself, and you already said a lot I would have said (and probably better).

As you said Marona, if Keeper isn't convinced by Arcantos' arguments (or his methods), she doesn't need to listen to him. Neither Fury nor Arcantos can force you to play your character a certain way. It makes sense for the players (or their characters) to disagree on a course of action to take.

However, I do take issue with the fact that this is spilling out into an out of character disagreement as well. Fury, I would appreciate if you tried to explain yourself calmly in situations like this without assuming people are insulting you or idiots for not being able to read your mind. I understand your point- but I can also see how Marona percieved Arcantos' actions as hostility on your part (particularly Arcantos' second response). You've since not been helping diffuse that perception through your OOC posts.

I would prefer we could sort this out and have no one have to leave, but I understand if you don't think that's possible.

Marona Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:30 pm

My issue is not that my character will be forced to do what Fury's wants to do. The issue is that aside from the behavior of both player and character being rude (which is just aggravating and unnecessary), it forces unnecessary and uninteresting drama which diverts from the actual fun aspects of the game. If it's how he behaves the entire game, it'd be less fun and more of a chore to play if its impossible to do anything he or his character don't like without constant insults and rudeness. None of us (I would hope) is really going to much enjoy it if it comes to a inter-party fight because he couldn't have his character communicate in a more polite way or accept other people making decisions he doesn't like. Especially since I can't see anyone who behaves this way taking it well if their character loses said fight (which he most likely would unless we actually went into combat mechanics since my character has both weather-crafting and fireborn and his has neither and they're both airborn).

I want to play the game and RP, not fight with a rude player/character who treats a request to be less rude as a reason to be even more rude.

Edit: I would suggest if Fury actually wants to play amicably with me that he changes his last post to be less hostile. But I'm not the GM so I don't really have the authority to make him do so. Otherwise I'm just going to continue to have Keeper ignore him and fly past.

Fury of the Tempest Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:34 pm

If you cannot RP with a rude character.

Leave.

Arcantos doesn't do manners. He says what he thinks about the situation or person, no matter how harsh/rude it might be.

If your cannot handle that, then leave.

Honestly I would advise to stop RPing altogether, or learn how to RP with a rude character. Because there is always going to be rude characters in RPing

Marona Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:37 pm

Fury of the Tempest wrote:If you cannot RP with a rude character.

Leave.

Arcantos doesn't do manners. He says what he thinks about the situation or person, no matter how harsh/rude it might be.

If your cannot handle that, then leave.

Honestly I would advise to stop RPing altogether, or learn how to RP with a rude character. Because there is always going to be rude characters in RPing

Rude in character to a point where it doesn't bother the other players? Sure. Rude to the point where you make other people want to stop playing with you? No. You have no business telling me to stop playing because you don't understand basic etiquette.

Fury of the Tempest Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:40 pm

Marona wrote:Rude in character to a point where it doesn't bother the other players? Sure. Rude to the point where you make other people want to stop playing with you? No. You have no business telling me to stop playing because you don't understand basic etiquette.

I have full right to tell to stop playing, when all it takes was a single post where my character was rude to your character's before you started complaining about it. That shows no tolerance to rude character's at all

And I have full understanding about basic etiquette. Considering how you've done nothing but moan and insult me through, there no reason to express that to you.

**LoganAura** Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:42 pm

Marona. Fury. Both of you cool your jets please, or else I'll need to take action. Am I clear? No more posts.

Edit: Since it can be misunderstood, No more fighting posts (OOC). As I said, keep it cool.

Curunir Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:19 am

Fury, that's not how etiquette works. Just because you think someone else is insulting you (even if they actually are!) doesn't give you free reign to do the same, or void all responsibility of being polite. I really do not appreciate you encouraging Marona to leave the campaign (and to stop roleplaying in general- that in particular was completely uncalled for). Marona's response to this conflict was a desire to leave- yours was to have her leave. There's a difference there.

I already expressed my displeasure at your response to this situation- and I don't want to have to do this, but if you two cannot resolve this situation peacefully and find a way to roleplay together, I would actually prefer if you leave Fury (whether Marona leaves or not), if you're going to actively push the other players away if another situation like this arises.

As it is I fear for the health and continuation of this campaign- I'm already quite inexperienced as a DM, although I've done plenty of roleplaying myself, and simply have never dealt with a situation like this as either a player or a DM before.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:54 am

I wasn't encouraging them to leave.

She said 'If this rudeness continues, then I'll leave'

I said 'Then leave, because my character will continue being rude'.

And I have very valid points on matter. Yes I have been rude, but they where much ruder first, so why am I being told off?

Curunir Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:26 am

I thought I made myself clear about my opinion. Rudeness does not excuse rudeness, and it seems you have not been making any attempts to engage in reasonable discussion. Let's look at the start of the arguement:

Marona wrote:I said this in character, but I want to be clear. Fury, I don't appreciate the hostility and I don't want it to end up with in character drama. Or OOC drama either for that matter.

Fury of the Tempest wrote:
... The fuck you talking about?

I'm just having my character act in character. What the hell is with this backlash?!

From the very beginning you make no attempt for a diplomatic solution to the issue. You immediately respond to Marona's statement with incredulity and swearing. Throughout the discussion instead of simply making your points, you always embed unnecessary rudeness and condescension.

Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Wow. Such arrogance.

If you think rudeness excuses rudeness, how do you expect the other parties to respond to your rudeness (even if they struck first in your opinion)? That can only result in an endless cycle of insults, and no solution. That would require at least one person attempting reason (and preferably more than one.

I'm surprised you had to ask me to clarify my earlier complaints, and that you see no issue with how you've handled the situation. I'm not saying everyone else involved behaved perfectly- heck, I have no idea at all how well I'm handling it. I'm sure not particularly well. But as DM I feel I have the responsibility to sort out issues the player's cant sort themselves, even if I don't have the best solution. I simply will not have you driving players away just because you refuse to handle disagreements with other players civilly.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:08 am

This is a rather interesting question, regarding the rules of in-character behavior.

However, I don't see really how it falls under any other kind of disliked experience in a RPG. I know I'd hate to deal with it and I wouldn't play in a game like that, because I don't like that kind of simulated experience. However, there are also other types of campaigns that I'd hate to play in.

Ultimately, when one member of a roleplaying game (whether player or DM) is doing something that makes you unhappy - it makes sense to bring it up and see if you can work out a solution that gives everyone a good experience. If the people in question just want mutually exclusive things (people that like backstabbing other party members are a common example), then the DM needs to make a ruling and the person on the wrong end of it needs to decide if they want to keep playing in this experience or swallow it down.

There's no need to get hostile outside of character for this. Some people just enjoy different experiences in games than others. But the discussion should never immediately end at, "It's in-character for me to do stuff you don't like". First it helps to figure out if you can find a way to make it work, in-character, so that everyone can have fun. If it's impossible to find a way to give everyone what they want then... Too bad.

Fury of the Tempest Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:18 am

Curunir wrote:
Marona wrote:I said this in character, but I want to be clear. Fury, I don't appreciate the hostility and I don't want it to end up with in character drama. Or OOC drama either for that matter.
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
... The fuck you talking about?

I'm just having my character act in character. What the hell is with this backlash?!
From the very beginning you make no attempt for a diplomatic solution to the issue. You immediately respond to Marona's statement with incredulity and swearing. Throughout the discussion instead of simply making your points, you always embed unnecessary rudeness and condescension.

Diplomatic solution? Strong words for a situation that everyone is blowing out of proportion

Not to mention the fact that your way of course. Seriously, incredulity? 'the state of being unwilling or unable to believe something'?

The only thing is that post, is confusion and surprise. The swear word is there, not for rudeness, but simply to reinforce the meaning of the post: 'What are you talking about'?

Curunir wrote:
Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Wow. Such arrogance.
If you think rudeness excuses rudeness, how do you expect the other parties to respond to your rudeness (even if they struck first in your opinion)? That can only result in an endless cycle of insults, and no solution. That would require at least one person attempting reason (and preferably more than one.

Hey, my rudeness wasn't just flat out insulting, it was also reason. The comment 'such arrogance' meant that I thought that Marona was taking things way out of hand. Not the best worded I admit, but I wasn't exactly in the best mood, considering how Marona complained about a single post

Curunir wrote:I'm surprised you had to ask me to clarify my earlier complaints, and that you see no issue with how you've handled the situation. I'm not saying everyone else involved behaved perfectly- heck, I have no idea at all how well I'm handling it. I'm sure not particularly well. But as DM I feel I have the responsibility to sort out issues the player's cant sort themselves, even if I don't have the best solution. I simply will not have you driving players away just because you refuse to handle disagreements with other players civilly.

I didn't ask for this clarification, I know I was rude. I was intentionally being rude. I just want to know why I was the one being told to leave, when this is all Marona's problem.

I repeat myself. I am not driving anyone away. Marona was the one saying that if something continues, then they'll leave. All I said is that it will continue. As I am not changing my character.

Deathstorm50 Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:35 am

Well, I guess I should've checked the OOC thread before responding in the IC thread. I have to say, in the Ic thread it looked like a perfectly normal confict, that would rise to potential resolving. Maybe Piasa had the right idea, sneaking off like that. Since this has gotten to the point StairC made a post, I feel like adding my two cents.

Role-playing, to me, is basically storytelling, where the story is in the DM's charge, and we get to choose how we get to the end. But what fun is a story if the characters don't fight with each other from time to time? If the first plan that gets thought up is the one everyone agrees with, how will we know it's the most sensible? And out of character, we all really need to have semi-rude-ish characters in these things. Because one of the reasons I wanted to role-play, was because the experience of going into strange situations and figuring out their solutions is something that can carry over into RL. And in RL, there will be rude people. They are everywhere. 'Tis best we learn how to deal with them in a way that we can take off the masks, go a thread over, and talk about it if it gets too serious. Because in the end, we are story-tellers, telling the story for our own benefit. If two actors take their characters to truly be part of themselves, so that they take the characters feelings as their own, it may be time to lay down the mask for a bit, get some air, and come back with a clear head. Because one of the rules that are most important when roleplaying, if what I've read is true, is this:

You are not your character.

I don't know how this will all end, but I do wish for peace in this game, I do want this game to continue. But one thing I do know is this. When all is said and done, I bet Marona and Fury will have a hell of a letter to Celestia to send.

(I could be wildly off track on this, but I feel philosophical in the morning, sue me)

Fury of the Tempest Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:46 am

Deathstorm50 wrote: I bet Fury will have a hell of a letter to Celestia to send

Dear Princess Celestia,

Some people have no tolerance to rudeness, even from a character.

Signed.

Storm Blade

**LoganAura** Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:15 pm

Fury, I said to drop it. Since you're going to continue the hostility after I said to stop and Dan stepped in, you're getting a day to cool down.

Fury isn't the only one getting action taken on him though.

Everyone. Drop the fight. Now. Crystal?

Color and bold to show that yes, I'm in admin mode, since I guess it wasn't clear the first time I stepped in. Treat this as an official warning. Drop the fight. Fury was already warned so he's getting time off the forums, however now this goes for everyone rather than just Marona and him.

**Stairc -Dan Felder** Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:15 pm

So... On a happier note, aren't ponies awesome?

Curunir Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:34 pm

Logan: Understood.

I'm still worried about this though in the meantime... I want to find a solution acceptable to everyone without anyone leaving but I don't know how everyone's concerns can be addressed reasonably without getting into another argument...

Stairc: ...Yes, yes they are.

mjh6 Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:28 am

So!

On an unrelated note, is the tapir Ch'aska talking to going to respond?

Curunir Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:37 am

Yep, responding now. Also to Piasa's digging. And to Keeper's looking ahead, if Marona's still playing. Don't know what Arcantos will be doing, if Fury's still playing.

Also- If you're interested in spoilers- the kind of spoilers that probably don't actually spoil anything, I made a picture of an NPC you might meet in this campaign. It's in the Art section of the forum.

Marona Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:27 am

Can Keeper see how many griffons there are?

Deathstorm50 Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:25 am

I'm wondering if I can see the scene that Keeper has caused, because that seems like the kind of thing I should be reacting to right about now. They do not sound friendly.

Edit: Or can I hear the griffon squawk in surprise? Since I don't actually see much besides their feet.

Fury of the Tempest Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:35 pm

Curunir wrote:Yep, responding now. Also to Piasa's digging. And to Keeper's looking ahead, if Marona's still playing. Don't know what Arcantos will be doing, if Fury's still playing.

Also- If you're interested in spoilers- the kind of spoilers that probably don't actually spoil anything, I made a picture of an NPC you might meet in this campaign. It's in the Art section of the forum.

Not exaclty much to do... the others are going off on their own thing.

Where's the nearest hiding spot that lets him see outside? Arc would of exploded the place thoroughly after all.

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