LL - A World of Monsters (We are...wait for it...no longer recruiting!)

Aaand I'm bloodied already. I told you guys we should have just waited on the train.

Yeah, I've already done some rebalancing on the enemies. They're just as tough attackwise, but...

...remember when Alice did 1 damage to a Half-Face? Yeah, it's dead now.

So, if Rixa is stunned, does Dusk Raven need to post noting that she is stunned, or does the next person just go?

If Dusk wants to and gets the chance to, it's perfectly fine, but if they aren't on and the next person wants to go...

...they'll have to wait until after I post the results of the last attack. Wheeeee

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote:...remember when Alice did 1 damage to a Half-Face? Yeah, it's dead now.

Pssh. So much for my vuln exploit/mass damage strategy. Good thing I have Spellbook, and a backup plan.

I'm not opposed to giving you guys tough, dangerous enemies,

I just think that maybe this scenario's 'tutorial battle' should be toned down just a notch.

Just gotta find a balance.

as far as Regina's special goes, wasn't it technically the conjuration that rolled the 8? I think it says in the rules that conjurations can't trigger special moves.

Dusk Raven wrote:[Hold on! I get a turn to make a save, right?]

Save:

Well, yeah, but it was at the end of your turn...

...unless...*looks at character sheet to make certain*...no, end of turn. Right. So as long as you got that save out before the start of your next turn, or otherwise the next time you intended to act, it wouldn't matter and would let the game progress at a faster pace since other people could go while we were (theoretically, since it didn't actually happen this time and might not ever) waiting on the person who was stunned. Still, sorry to make it seem like we weren't letting you make that save.

tl;dr: Oh, of course you did. I'm sorry for skipping over it. Go right ahead and make that save, sir!

@mjh6: That is a rule I had decidedly forgotten about, and in a completely unrelated note, sorry about saying otherwise, Marona.

so,that means its Rixa's turn now?

mjh6 wrote:so,that means its Rixa's turn now?

I already went, that's when I made my save.

Don't worry about it Writer, I was going to correct you (/ask if you'd made a House Rule otherwise) anyway.

Pardon the double post.

Whoah, fight's over already? Maybe you didn't need to change the monster stats afterall? I'll leave the finisher for someone else as I got to do something cool already.

It's not over!

You still have to kill the last monster after all.

I ended it.

Oh hey I DO get to do something.

Hopefully something big, dood.

Big stuff is awesome.

Well I'm not running a nuke build, but it'll be decent.

That was indeed decent. *munches popcorn*

Gosh, I hope that thing's still alive for my next turn.

=(

If the fight is over, what purpose did it living serve other than to just ruin my moment of awesomeness? I wouldn't complain if you'd had the fight still continue, but.... I don't see why you would take the moment away from me like that without an actual purpose for it. Especially after specifically asking us to attempt to do awesome stuff.

AProcrastinatingWriter wrote: Battle is technically over, but if anyone wants to continue by e.g. shooting an arrow into this thing's big eye, I won't stop you.

There are about six other reasons, too, but all of them pale in comparison to the fact that if you want battle to continue, you can the thundertrain this thing into the ground.

Also, for what it's worth? I don't think the monster not being dead at the end of all that made that moment less cool. I'm...

...this sounds accusatory, but it's just trying to be confused, because I am confused. Why did the monster surviving make your moment less awesome?

Ok.... I guess. Not gonna put effort in trying to do any cool finishing style moves in the future for sure though. I'm fine with it just flying off since anything I can add now would just add to the lameness of the result. Don't care what other people decide though.

Edit: It makes it less awesome because instead of a demonstration of power it just became a pretty light show.

Marona wrote:Ok.... I guess. Not gonna put effort in trying to do any cool finishing style moves in the future for sure though. I'm fine with it just flying off since anything I can add now would just add to the lameness of the result. Don't care what other people decide though.

Okay. This battle was not my best foot forward in this campaign.

Like, in Luna's Command, I'm not a perfect DM by any means. I've made a couple mistakes out of battle, like any DM, and you know what? I make about one minor mistake per battle. Not a big deal; people notice, they let me know, the mistake is corrected, everything else goes without a hitch. We all have fun.

This battle, I made like six battles' worth of admittedly small mistakes. Do I know why that happened? Nope! But I missed save ends properties, I miscalculated how much damage attacks might do, I missed a conjuration rolling instead of its conjurerer and advised a special move, and a bunch of other little things I caught and fixed myself before other people saw it. That's not even counting the technically-out-of-battle making you all rush into things.

tl;dr "I MESSED UP BIG TIME BY MESSING UP A LOT OF LITTLE TIMES, EVEN IF TECHNICALLY EVERYTHING IS FIXED NOW,"  is the feel-good movie of the year, opening up to rave reviews. And I personally, sincerely, apologize for all of that to all of you. If any of you feels personally offended by any of what I've done and feel this apology to be too impersonal, let me know what the offense was and I will make a much more personal apology.

Thusly, if this is another mistake, then we can add it to the pile of people being generally displeased with me and either move on or burn this game to the ground using the pile as kindling. Because despite what I am about to say, I am genuinely sorry that my decision as a DM made you feel bad and that your moment was worth less than it was. And again, I for one thought the train was phenomenally awesome. If you are sincere about never doing a finishing move again, what just happened will stand forever as the most awesome thing in this campaign, because it's clear you have a mind for it and a character for it unlike anybody else in the room.

But I don't think I've made a mistake here.

I have given you chance to have your character say "Oh no you don't, get back here!" and continue the awesome train in a very literal sense. I have given you a coup de grace, which you are free to execute in any manner you see fit. That will allow you to actually kill this monster even though if it hadn't negated that one attack it still technically wouldn't be dead now because to be dead in this game you have to be at -50% HP and it would have been a -22 HP, not -25. Unconscious, but not dead. If you believe that for anything to be awesome it has to finish by killing something, then I have given you a golden opportunity to be as awesome as you like without the restrictions of numbers and combat talents, or even skill checks. Just free reign to let 'em have it.

But you said the battle was over!

I said it was technically over and told you that you could continue if you want.

Then our job is to disbelieve what the DM says? To read between the lines as opposed to taking things at face value? That's not a mark of a good DM, that's the mark of a man attempting to cover his tracks. And who cares how much HP it had? It's the DM's job to be rule zero and create an awesome story - that would have been a good finish to the fight!

There was no reading between the lines there - I simply used synonyms instead of the specific phrase "continue the battle". The decision of whether or not to and how awesome it was going to be was entirely up to you! Even if I could have ended the battle there-

No. You could have. You're not listening. You are the DM. It is not the made-up number you had in mind or written down somewhere that tells you the battle is done with, it is the current situation the party is in. You dropped the half-faces down to 1 HP each, and prematurely at that, because you thought that was what would be appropriate for the campaign. Heaven forbid you drop off 5 HP off your perfect first boss and give someone that blessed satisfaction of having done a good job!

I didn't know Marona wasn't going to be happy! I'm sorry. If I had known it would upset her, then I would have done exactly what you said. But I was honestly so blown away with the amazing creativity she was showing that it was already cemented in my mind that her character was awesome, and I thought...I thought other people felt the same way. I still think that the electric train was awesome in idea, in scope, and in description - I understand Marona thinks it's less powerful because it didn't finish the monster off, but I as a DM have already subtly altered the world around her to be more awesome just so she doesn't awesome the world out of existence.

Besides all that, I must say in my defense that I gave a free shot to let Regina be as awesome as Regina could be. If you disagree with me, why not just make that your finishing move?

Because she shouldn't have to - she typed out the finishing move and tried really hard on it already. There's no point in making her do it a second time - sorry, giving her the 'choice' to repeat herself or else look really really lame. What reason could you have besides numbers and stubbornness to give Marona this kind of unsatisfying conclusion to battle?

You're...right about that finishing move already being done, yeah. I actually did have a couple purposes for what I did. The Half-Face is currently at 4 HP. That is less than a tenth of what it started with, and none of that damage was damage dodged - in fact, a lot of it was taken by its freaking eye. If a wild animal on its last legs, even one that was very angry before taking on that damage, suddenly finds itself teleported (or driven by an electric train) about 200 feet away from its opponent, then after the momentary confusion do you believe it will run at its obviously more powerful attacker, or attempt to run away and thus live to fight another day?

Yeah, okay, that's a pretty darn good point, but only if the animal survives being teleported. Like I said before, it's the DM's job to decide when it lives and when it dies-

I have already explained my mindset. It hadn't occurred to me that anybody could possibly think Regina wasn't awesome in those past couple scenes just because the half-face would fly off at the end. I still don't understand how that could be, because the electric train was just so...self...evidently...

geegkehkanak;  

Okay, annoying geekouts aside that doesn't seem like a purpose, but instead a justification. Quit justifying your decision and tell me what you were hoping to accomplish with it.

Alright, though I would call considering the enemy's viewpoint and writing them appropriately to be "good GMing", not "attempting to justify oneself". Have you ever played a video game with recurring bosses?

Yeah. They're really annoying.

Why?

Because all the effort you put into them is wasted effort. You hit their last point and the cutscene pops up and it doesn't look like you've damaged them at all. Then they smile, while you're panting like you're worn out and beat up - even if you didn't take a single hit and it's honestly just bullcrap all around.

Well, what about the battles where it's obvious you ended up beating them? You hit their last hit point and the cutscene pops up and you're standing triumphant over their broken body. They grit their teeth and stand up, something happens, and then they're getting away on their rocket ship or else sending a squardon of mooks at you, shouting that they'll be back for revenge!

Still wasted effort. What's the point in beating someone in a video game if you haven't actually beaten them? All you're doing is wasting time fighting somebody who won't die when you could fight somebody who would die. What's the point?

The point is that you get to watch them grow alongside you, like a rival. Being able to consistently beat this person that you can see is definitely getting stronger each time you fight gives you a sense of how strong you're getting too. Plus, if you write them right, recurring bosses can be really funny.

I...don't agree at all. But I guess that's just something we disagree on, like how 'awesome' the train was. So, you maybe intended on making the Half-Face Mommy a recurring boss?

I didn't want to post so, cause it's spoilers and might influence the decision. But yeah.

Then why did you make her like the first one instead of the second one? The second one would have been at least more tolerable, and let Regina be at least partially awesome.

I...did do the second one?

...no you didn't?

Yeah. I said the Half-Face was gliding off instead of flying, because its wings were shaking so much. That means it was on its last legs and really hurt.

...wow. Dude, that's...that's...

...oh gosh. That's really vague, isn't it?

That is really vague.

I'm...that is my fault and I will be editing my post to reflect this realization and make it clearer how badly Regina hurt the Half-Face as soon as I'm done posting this. It may not be super-articulate, but Half-Face will be super-beat up.

Yeah, please do, and try not to be too much of a hack. Okay, so, I still disagree with you on literally every point you've made, but I at least see where you're coming from now. So maybe I'm not happy, but I get why. Now what are you going to do about making Marona feel bad?

I would like to apologize again. Marona? I'm really, really sorry for making you feel like your character wasn't being as awesome as she could have been. Whether I meant to or not, that was a really crappy thing of me to do, and I'd like to extend a promise to you that it will not happen again. You have my humblest apologies.

Exactly. So now, I just have one last question. Isn't it kind of presumptuous to have this...'other you' argue the other person's position instead of letting them argue it themselves?

It's super presumptuous.

Then what made you think it was okay?

Because despite the amicable end to our conversation and the fact that writing you out made me genuinely consider the other side's point of view instead of just posting in supposedly-righteous fury what my reasoning was, this was never intended to serve as the actual argument in this topic. I am not so bigheaded as to think I can see all sides of the issue and pull out the truth - I've probably covered, what, maybe a tenth of the opposing side's actual argument? And the other 90% I've presented here is all accidental falsehoods, I'm sure.

What I was trying to do by writing this argument out was to present my point of view, acknowledge some of what was wrong with that point of view by arguing the opposite, emphasize what I believe is right with that point of view by arguing my own position, and directly state that I am alright with people arguing with me even once I'm done. Most of all, I wanted to not just say but show that I do understand a little of where you are coming from. It also provided a good way for me to gather all my thoughts, because trust me- before writing this out, they were pretty scattered.

Once again, I want to apologize for everything I've screwed up so far, especially in battle. I'm going to be a better GM in the future, if you'll still have me.

And if you think APW was too presumptuous in representing you, left some things unsaid, or even worse got your position completely wrong (Which he did), feel free to continue or restart the debate I've set up here. Things may get a bit heated, but trust me: in the long run, everyone will be better off for the experience. Especially this bozo.

"IMUBTBMUALOLT,EITEIFN will touch the hearts of many experienced DMs, and while similarities to APW's previous works can be seen, it shows the struggle that the fallout of poor or questionable decisions can have with a touch of heart, honesty, and humour."
- The Pony Tale-Teller, 3.5/5 Stars